END TO END BERNERS: The Official Bernie Sanders 2020 Crew thread

Someone who's transphobic is not the sign of a normal, nice person.

m bison, Doc C, Liz, Brad all otm

Let's just get the nonvoters activated and stop vote suppression instead.

this is the way forward, not begging for votes from hateful assholes

I don't really care to debate this, but I do wonder (1) is anyone here honestly going to not vote for Bernie if he gets the nomination, on account of Rogan's support and (2) is anyone here who was otherwise sincerely considering voting for Bernie in a contested primary considering no longer doing so because of Rogan's support?

"Accepted support from someone who is problematic" as an eliminator is going to eliminate a lot of candidates. Bu my question is not rhetorical, I really want to know.

It bears repeating that plenty of nonvoters are hateful assholes.

xp

anvil, your attempts at reductio aren't even worth addressing.

man alive, I intend to vote for Sanders in the Ohio primary and, if he's the candidate, in the general. I also don't want an influx of people who want me not to exist into the Democratic Party. Not sure why this is such a hard concept.

Someone who's transphobic is not the sign of a normal, nice person.

Do you believe that everyone who listens to Joe Rogan (again, 3.3+ million of them), is as a result of merely just listening to the Joe Rogan podcast, a transphobe?

the issue here appears to be that actual non-binary people itt are being told their concerns are irrelevant

nobody is saying they don't want more blue votes afaict

The nature of Sanders fans is not among the two reasons he's not my top pick.

Do you believe that everyone who listens to Joe Rogan (again, 3.3+ million of them), is as a result of merely just listening to the Joe Rogan podcast, a transphobe?

― triggercut, Friday, January 24, 2020

Do you want to listen to somoene advovcate transphobia?

I pretty much hate Joe Rogan and resent the fact that—as mentioned upthread—the media has ceded the territory he occupies now... but tbrr his comments on trans people (that I’ve been exposed to) aren’t exactly out of line with lots of older libs I’ve seen on soc med and heard irl.

and maybe I’ve drunk the koolaid but I just can’t see Bernie somehow abandoning a commitment to trans issues when others in the Dem primary supposedly would not.

Absolutely mind-boggling how many people here perfectly understand the whole "Voting for Trump doesn't make you racist but it makes you OK with racism" argument but don't understand this.

but tbrr his comments on trans people (that I’ve been exposed to) aren’t exactly out of line with lots of older libs I’ve seen on soc med and heard irl.

yeah, and I'm not OK with that either!

In that case Bernie Sanders and Cornel West have enabled Joe Rogan far more than I ever have, with my solitary 1 added to his viewing figures on a couple of occasions

Great, here's your cookie, please stfu

Do you believe that everyone who listens to Joe Rogan (again, 3.3+ million of them), is as a result of merely just listening to the Joe Rogan podcast, a transphobe?

― triggercut, 24. januar 2020 17:21 (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

Every person who listens to Rogan, my assumption will be they are a transphobe. But I don't assume everyone who listens to Rogan is a transphobe. These are two different things and should not be confused.

and it doesn't say much for Warren who planned to enable Rogan plenty too

I don't really care to debate this, but I do wonder (1) is anyone here honestly going to not vote for Bernie if he gets the nomination, on account of Rogan's support and (2) is anyone here who was otherwise sincerely considering voting for Bernie in a contested primary considering no longer doing so because of Rogan's support?

no and no, fucking come on

Also hilarious to see a cohort who positioned HRC as the literal fucking devil for the last five years suddenly pivot to "I am OK with the president of the We Stan Alex Jones Fan Club, this is fine."

i guess i should prepare for how horrible these discussions with fellow leftists will always be

and if Bernie is bad for touting the endorsement of a known dumbass (albeit one with a sadly huge audience), then some of the other candidates who sought out a Rogan appearance are also bad so shit I guess we’re fucked

i wanna go one day without tu quoque fallacies.

ok sorry my last post was needless snark but I would genuinely appreciate hearing how other candidates’ —including ones who dipped—policies on trans issues stack up against Sanders’.

Great! Go find out.

there are a lot of people who I speak to on a regular basis who have this embedded fear that, like money, cultural capital is a zero sum game and things they take for granted or see as essential to their identity are going to be negatively impacted by someone else getting a leg up. they don't articulate it this way, but the idea is that someone with a viewpoint they don't personally recognize getting a slice of attention somehow diminishes their own role in society

the rogan listeners of the world have an overlap with that kind of culturally conservative viewpoint and it might be as simple as finding a voice they relate to in order to flip their view, realizing that their in-group can include trans people as well. there's a large swath of people who "don't have anything against gay people" who thought gay marriage was wrong who now don't give a shit because they figured out their own lives were 0% changed by that cultural shift

I don't think you're going to get many strong advocates for the disadvantaged in the group that easily shifts from anti positions to ambivalent positions, but injecting them into a community with diverse voices is going to shift them toward that ambivalence quicker.

Rogan has a better record with LGBTQ issues than Joe Biden

as a queer person who supports sanders this thread is not really helping me feel like i have a place among the rest of his supporters or that my priorities and concerns wouldn't be ridiculed by them so i'm gonna stop checking this thread

It'd be great if everyone could be revolutionary, an advocate, or at the very least an ally, but I think believing in causes that help float all boats -- while maintaining a strong network of actual allies who are ensuring that some aren't left behind -- has a net positive effect

^ not sure how far back we’re assessing records, but if he’s better than Biden, well I got bad news about Clinton

tbh I suspected this thread would move in this direction eventually, especially if Sanders wins Iowa, NH, etc.

the rogan listeners of the world have an overlap with that kind of culturally conservative viewpoint

I think this is only sorta true...I think his audience is more malleable than that, I think its a very reachable audience (precisely why its been so coveted by all the candidates). You don't go on there to pander to an imagined viewpoint/audience - you go on there to be given 2-3 hours to say what you're about, and there's nowhere else of any size you can really do that.

His comments are filled with people changing their minds, on all kinds of things. There's not many outlets for reaching people direct and changing minds in this way

I think also a lot of low information people out there, views not solidified, jumbled up, these are some of the most reachable people out there

Hillary literally said some TERF shit like a month ago iirc

that's cool, i was gonna vote for hillary/joe biden but i guess i've changed my mind

y'all are being assholes

Great! Go find out.

Sanders and Warren also both oppose the use of conscience laws or religious objections in things like providing health care or other services to trans and nb people.

Which I think leads to real questions about persuasiveness, strong arguments, and reaching people - especially in a media landscape setup to achieve the opposite of that. Even assuming his audience does lean right, do we only want them to hear right wing nonsense? Or do we want them to hear alternatives? They're told leftists and progressives are terrible people, and then when they hear one at length the comments are full of "oh this isn't what I was told they were!"

This is like knocking on a million doors

thank you Eliza

Cool posts.

remember when Bernie went on Fox? What if say, Neil Cavuto, endorses him?

one thing I think we can all agee on is we all want the Transphobe-in-Chief bounced

If "bounced" is a synonym for something that would get me an interview with the Secret Service, yes.

I should qualify when I said "socially conservative" I don't mean actively campaigning against social progress. While some people default to inherent hostility when they encounter experiences foreign to their own, at their most benign it's just this discomfort that's rooted in insecurity.

Some who are socially conservative by the harsher definition, when they hear someone who has experienced real adversity explain how they've been harmed, will attempt to argue or diminish their points. There are many who, when they actually hear someone make the same points in a venue that's familiar -- whether it's their home turf, or listening to a podcast they can relate to -- are open in a way they may not be for people they perceive as strangers. It's that ambivalent conservativeness that exists across the political spectrum.

fwiw I'd rather Bernie / his people hadn't felt the need to tweet about it from the official account

remember when Bernie went on Fox? What if say, Neil Cavuto, endorses him?

one thing I think we can all agee on is we all want the Transphobe-in-Chief bounced

fwiw I'd rather Bernie / his people hadn't felt the need to tweet about it from the official account

Yeah, that was clearly a mistake.

I genuinely didn’t understand the Joe Rogan debate. He sucks but he’s not the first Bernie Sanders supporter that sucks. This isn’t new. I like Bernie Sanders despite despising his base.

Joe Rogan has a huge audience/platform; he is not equivalent to some random "supporter" or "the base"

also if you really want to show up at this point and keep the debate going, then using a vague pejorative like "sucks" strongly reinforces the perception that the Bernie supporters itt do not take trans rights or anti-trans rhetoric seriously

And he's a case where all of a sudden, people who have been saying since the last election that progressives (and Sanders's base particularly) shouldn't have to make deals with centrists and "the libs" are saying, "Look, you have to let these people into the tent." (Not saying anyone on this thread necessarily, but on Twitter for sure.) And when marginalized people who are hurt by this particular endorsement are objecting, they're being told to shut up and get in line. (Again, not here.)

Ah. I should clarify that I have no idea who he is other than the guy from Fear Factor that now has a podcast.

I guess I was trying to make the point that I don’t think Bernie Sanders is going to adopt Joe Rogan’s views on anything.

he's the guy from news radio who has standup specials called like "triggered!" and has the biggest podcast in the world