Anvil do the work yourself. It's easily searchable. Nobody here owes you anything on this.
― Frederik B,
I'll look later, but for now I will asssume you are correct and I (presumably along with pomenitul) am transphobic for watching the Joe Rogan podcast with Cornel West, as we were both in the audience that day.
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 16:13 (four years ago) link
the inciting incident to this discussion is *rogan himself* endorsing bernie and bernie touting it
did I miss something? I scanned Bernie's twitter and saw no mention of it.
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:14 (four years ago) link
“I think I'll probably vote for Bernie... He’s been insanely consistent his entire life. He’s basically been saying the same thing, been for the same thing his whole life. And that in and of itself is a very powerful structure to operate from.” -Joe Rogan pic.twitter.com/fuQP0KwGGI— Bernie Sanders (@BernieSanders) January 23, 2020
― pomenitul, Friday, 24 January 2020 16:16 (four years ago) link
ahh
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:16 (four years ago) link
Someone who's transphobic is not the sign of a normal, nice person.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:17 (four years ago) link
m bison, Doc C, Liz, Brad all otm
Let's just get the nonvoters activated and stop vote suppression instead.
this is the way forward, not begging for votes from hateful assholes
― The Squalls Of Hate (sleeve), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:17 (four years ago) link
I don't really care to debate this, but I do wonder (1) is anyone here honestly going to not vote for Bernie if he gets the nomination, on account of Rogan's support and (2) is anyone here who was otherwise sincerely considering voting for Bernie in a contested primary considering no longer doing so because of Rogan's support?
"Accepted support from someone who is problematic" as an eliminator is going to eliminate a lot of candidates. Bu my question is not rhetorical, I really want to know.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:18 (four years ago) link
It bears repeating that plenty of nonvoters are hateful assholes.
xp
― pomenitul, Friday, 24 January 2020 16:18 (four years ago) link
anvil, your attempts at reductio aren't even worth addressing.
man alive, I intend to vote for Sanders in the Ohio primary and, if he's the candidate, in the general. I also don't want an influx of people who want me not to exist into the Democratic Party. Not sure why this is such a hard concept.
― Pete Swine Cave (Eliza D.), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:21 (four years ago) link
Do you believe that everyone who listens to Joe Rogan (again, 3.3+ million of them), is as a result of merely just listening to the Joe Rogan podcast, a transphobe?
― triggercut, Friday, 24 January 2020 16:21 (four years ago) link
the issue here appears to be that actual non-binary people itt are being told their concerns are irrelevant
nobody is saying they don't want more blue votes afaict
― The Squalls Of Hate (sleeve), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:22 (four years ago) link
The nature of Sanders fans is not among the two reasons he's not my top pick.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:22 (four years ago) link
― triggercut, Friday, January 24, 2020
Do you want to listen to somoene advovcate transphobia?
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:23 (four years ago) link
I pretty much hate Joe Rogan and resent the fact that—as mentioned upthread—the media has ceded the territory he occupies now... but tbrr his comments on trans people (that I’ve been exposed to) aren’t exactly out of line with lots of older libs I’ve seen on soc med and heard irl. and maybe I’ve drunk the koolaid but I just can’t see Bernie somehow abandoning a commitment to trans issues when others in the Dem primary supposedly would not.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:25 (four years ago) link
Absolutely mind-boggling how many people here perfectly understand the whole "Voting for Trump doesn't make you racist but it makes you OK with racism" argument but don't understand this.
but tbrr his comments on trans people (that I’ve been exposed to) aren’t exactly out of line with lots of older libs I’ve seen on soc med and heard irl.
yeah, and I'm not OK with that either!
― Pete Swine Cave (Eliza D.), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:27 (four years ago) link
In that case Bernie Sanders and Cornel West have enabled Joe Rogan far more than I ever have, with my solitary 1 added to his viewing figures on a couple of occasions
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 16:27 (four years ago) link
Great, here's your cookie, please stfu
― Pete Swine Cave (Eliza D.), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:28 (four years ago) link
― triggercut, 24. januar 2020 17:21 (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink
Every person who listens to Rogan, my assumption will be they are a transphobe. But I don't assume everyone who listens to Rogan is a transphobe. These are two different things and should not be confused.
― Frederik B, Friday, 24 January 2020 16:28 (four years ago) link
and it doesn't say much for Warren who planned to enable Rogan plenty too
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 16:28 (four years ago) link
no and no, fucking come on
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:30 (four years ago) link
Also hilarious to see a cohort who positioned HRC as the literal fucking devil for the last five years suddenly pivot to "I am OK with the president of the We Stan Alex Jones Fan Club, this is fine."
― Pete Swine Cave (Eliza D.), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:32 (four years ago) link
i guess i should prepare for how horrible these discussions with fellow leftists will always be
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:33 (four years ago) link
and if Bernie is bad for touting the endorsement of a known dumbass (albeit one with a sadly huge audience), then some of the other candidates who sought out a Rogan appearance are also bad so shit I guess we’re fucked
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:33 (four years ago) link
i wanna go one day without tu quoque fallacies.
― by the light of the burning Citroën, Friday, 24 January 2020 16:35 (four years ago) link
ok sorry my last post was needless snark but I would genuinely appreciate hearing how other candidates’ —including ones who dipped—policies on trans issues stack up against Sanders’.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:37 (four years ago) link
Great! Go find out.
― Frederik B, Friday, 24 January 2020 16:38 (four years ago) link
there are a lot of people who I speak to on a regular basis who have this embedded fear that, like money, cultural capital is a zero sum game and things they take for granted or see as essential to their identity are going to be negatively impacted by someone else getting a leg up. they don't articulate it this way, but the idea is that someone with a viewpoint they don't personally recognize getting a slice of attention somehow diminishes their own role in society
the rogan listeners of the world have an overlap with that kind of culturally conservative viewpoint and it might be as simple as finding a voice they relate to in order to flip their view, realizing that their in-group can include trans people as well. there's a large swath of people who "don't have anything against gay people" who thought gay marriage was wrong who now don't give a shit because they figured out their own lives were 0% changed by that cultural shift
I don't think you're going to get many strong advocates for the disadvantaged in the group that easily shifts from anti positions to ambivalent positions, but injecting them into a community with diverse voices is going to shift them toward that ambivalence quicker.
― babu frik fan account (mh), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:43 (four years ago) link
Rogan has a better record with LGBTQ issues than Joe Biden
― The Mandymoorian (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:44 (four years ago) link
as a queer person who supports sanders this thread is not really helping me feel like i have a place among the rest of his supporters or that my priorities and concerns wouldn't be ridiculed by them so i'm gonna stop checking this thread
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:44 (four years ago) link
It'd be great if everyone could be revolutionary, an advocate, or at the very least an ally, but I think believing in causes that help float all boats -- while maintaining a strong network of actual allies who are ensuring that some aren't left behind -- has a net positive effect
― babu frik fan account (mh), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:45 (four years ago) link
^ not sure how far back we’re assessing records, but if he’s better than Biden, well I got bad news about Clinton
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:47 (four years ago) link
tbh I suspected this thread would move in this direction eventually, especially if Sanders wins Iowa, NH, etc.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:47 (four years ago) link
the rogan listeners of the world have an overlap with that kind of culturally conservative viewpoint
I think this is only sorta true...I think his audience is more malleable than that, I think its a very reachable audience (precisely why its been so coveted by all the candidates). You don't go on there to pander to an imagined viewpoint/audience - you go on there to be given 2-3 hours to say what you're about, and there's nowhere else of any size you can really do that.
His comments are filled with people changing their minds, on all kinds of things. There's not many outlets for reaching people direct and changing minds in this way
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 16:51 (four years ago) link
I think also a lot of low information people out there, views not solidified, jumbled up, these are some of the most reachable people out there
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 16:52 (four years ago) link
Hillary literally said some TERF shit like a month ago iirc
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:53 (four years ago) link
that's cool, i was gonna vote for hillary/joe biden but i guess i've changed my mind
y'all are being assholes
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:54 (four years ago) link
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:57 (four years ago) link
Sanders and Warren also both oppose the use of conscience laws or religious objections in things like providing health care or other services to trans and nb people.
― Pete Swine Cave (Eliza D.), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:59 (four years ago) link
Which I think leads to real questions about persuasiveness, strong arguments, and reaching people - especially in a media landscape setup to achieve the opposite of that. Even assuming his audience does lean right, do we only want them to hear right wing nonsense? Or do we want them to hear alternatives? They're told leftists and progressives are terrible people, and then when they hear one at length the comments are full of "oh this isn't what I was told they were!"
This is like knocking on a million doors
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 16:59 (four years ago) link
thank you Eliza
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:00 (four years ago) link
Cool posts.
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:04 (four years ago) link
remember when Bernie went on Fox? What if say, Neil Cavuto, endorses him?
one thing I think we can all agee on is we all want the Transphobe-in-Chief bounced
― Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:04 (four years ago) link
If "bounced" is a synonym for something that would get me an interview with the Secret Service, yes.
― Pete Swine Cave (Eliza D.), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:10 (four years ago) link
I should qualify when I said "socially conservative" I don't mean actively campaigning against social progress. While some people default to inherent hostility when they encounter experiences foreign to their own, at their most benign it's just this discomfort that's rooted in insecurity.
Some who are socially conservative by the harsher definition, when they hear someone who has experienced real adversity explain how they've been harmed, will attempt to argue or diminish their points. There are many who, when they actually hear someone make the same points in a venue that's familiar -- whether it's their home turf, or listening to a podcast they can relate to -- are open in a way they may not be for people they perceive as strangers. It's that ambivalent conservativeness that exists across the political spectrum.
― babu frik fan account (mh), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:12 (four years ago) link
fwiw I'd rather Bernie / his people hadn't felt the need to tweet about it from the official account
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:15 (four years ago) link
remember when Bernie went on Fox? What if say, Neil Cavuto, endorses him?one thing I think we can all agee on is we all want the Transphobe-in-Chief bounced
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:16 (four years ago) link
Yeah, that was clearly a mistake.
― pomenitul, Friday, 24 January 2020 17:18 (four years ago) link
I genuinely didn’t understand the Joe Rogan debate. He sucks but he’s not the first Bernie Sanders supporter that sucks. This isn’t new. I like Bernie Sanders despite despising his base.
― Allen (etaeoe), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:34 (four years ago) link
Joe Rogan has a huge audience/platform; he is not equivalent to some random "supporter" or "the base"
― rob, Friday, 24 January 2020 17:37 (four years ago) link
also if you really want to show up at this point and keep the debate going, then using a vague pejorative like "sucks" strongly reinforces the perception that the Bernie supporters itt do not take trans rights or anti-trans rhetoric seriously
― rob, Friday, 24 January 2020 17:39 (four years ago) link