The Band.

There's good stuff on the first Robbie solo album. Too bad about the singing tho.

NPR used to have an audio-only HDTV channel called Mixtape, which offered daily block programming of what I guess could be described as "Adult Alternative" mixed with some Classic Rock and Oldies. More than once I heard a Peter Gabriel track segued into the original of "Broken Arrow", which I always thought was a cheeky move on part of the programmer given how hard Robertson was biting PG on that album.

The Band made good records without Robbie. Robbie couldn't even manage a tolerable record without the Band.

They only did ... two without him? The only thing I remember is the (excellent) Springsteen cover.

Even Levon was less than prolific, though his final albums are great.

Surprising that The Last Waltz soundtrack has never been polled.

My negative take on Robbie has softened somewhat over the years. He's the one who kept getting those drunks into a studio and on tour, after all. But seriously, fuck that title.

xp to alfred's list - i hate that i have to admit that the jakob dylan cover of whispering pines is good

YES to a last waltz sdtk poll

The Mekons cover is inspired.

They only did ... two without him? The only thing I remember is the (excellent) Springsteen cover.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, January 23, 2020 10:25 AM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Three! Jericho, High on the Hog, and Jubilation. They're not spectacular by any means, but unlike, say, "American Roulette," listening to them doesn't make me shout STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT at the speakers.

The latter day Band's "Blind Willie McTell" is great too.

i've seen the new doc and it is basically the visual cliffs notes for robbie's memoir. some good live/rehearsal footage, but nothing too revelatory. robbie is pretty insufferable, no new garth interviews. i don't even take a hard line on Robertson — incredible guitarist, a pretty strong run songwriting-wise from the late 60s to early 70s. But the eagerness with which he trots out the same old shit is just boring.

It's kind of baffling that he never found a decent context/vehicle for his brilliant playing post-Band (or did he and I missed it?)

i don't think so — seems like he is fairly uninterested in the guitar, really! which is crazy, he really was one of the greats.

whoever wrote it, unfaithful servant is a fuckin great song, ain't it

what DID he do to the lady???

Yes but he’s not really a nice guy https://t.co/KkUH6v6BSP

— David Crosby (@thedavidcrosby) September 15, 2020

lol croz is such a messy bitch

someone should start a new poll, who is the bigger asshole david crosby or robbie robertson?

at this point it's probably croz

My lazy self posted upthread about "The Night..." without listening again, just misremembering ol' Virgil as a farmer who happened to fall victim to whatever troops, one generic example collateral damage, from the subset of those left alive and workin'. However, let's review---words from bobdylan.com (because, ad reminds us, it's on Before The Flood:
The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down
WRITTEN BY: J.R. ROBERTSON

Virgil Caine is the name,

and I served on the Danville train,

'Til Stoneman's cavalry

came and tore up the tracks again.

In the winter of '65,

We were hungry, just barely alive.

By May the tenth, Richmond had fell,

it's a time I remember, oh so well,

The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down,
They went

La, La, La, La, La, La,

La, La, La, La, La, La,

La, La,

Back with my wife in Tennessee,

When one day she called to me,

"Virgil, quick, come see,

there goes Robert E. Lee!"

Now I don't mind choppin' wood,

and I don't care if the money's no good.

Ya take what ya need and ya leave the rest,

But they should never have taken the very best.
(Chorus)
Like my father before me,

I will work the land,

Like my brother above me,

who took a rebel stand.

He was just eighteen, proud and brave,

But a Yankee laid him in his grave,

I swear by the mud below my feet,

You can't raise a Caine back up

when he's in defeat.
So Virgil was not just a farmer in the War, but he wasn't a soldier either, volunteer or conscript (of which there were many, some forcible, as in the North). So you could say he was complicit, but maybe it was just or mainly a job, his railroad trade, after leaving (getting away from?) the farm (started out in a farming family, as eventually mentioned). But wait, "served on", was he a soldier after all, or was it that this line, from what I've read elsewhere (w/o wanting to go back into the bottomless lake of the Civil War rabbithole), which supplied Richmond during the war, counts as war service for all such workers? Either way, he was in there, and yep Gen. George Stoneman's Union cavalry tore it up more than once.
So he goes back, during the winter of '65, with no Union aid yet coming or whatever they worked out, and he's back in Tenn. keeping his head down, and yeah re that Viney discussion linked upthread, the Robert E. Lee bit does seem like an Elvis sighting etc., since Lee isn't known to have visited that part of the South , also he's being rational re "You take what you need and you leave the rest," applying to soldiers and civilian survivors, or that's how they should be, within limits.
But his brother, Johnny Reb or not, saluted as such, is still his dead brother, with whom he grew up farming, for instance, and gone as Robert E. Lee. The South's not gonna rise again, not the way some who celebrate the Confederacy want, and, The chorus is a kind of funeral elegy, bells ringing that-a way.
Kane, or however you spell it is farming 'til the crops come back and maybe crowd the memories and the empty spaces a little.
So it does leave some areas to be filled in however you want, but still think it's more for commiseration than glorification or false equivalence (I hope).

In the winter of '65,

We were hungry, just barely alive.

By May the tenth, Richmond had fell,: Oh, so the worst of it may have been when the cut-off Danville-Richmond sector ran out of food---physically, he may be more or less okay in Tennessee, the home state of now-President Johnson. But well-fed enough to think about something other than food...

Also, who the hell cares if Robert E. Lee is back or not? He doesn't mention responding to his wife when she tells him, just goes on with his thoughts, sorting it out and mourning his brother.

And re the thing about Robertson reading a Civil War book, and Helm's response, that prob contributed to the writing---Like Lou Reed said Nico came to him with the line, "I'll be your mirror, reflect who you are," and Warhol wanted him to write a song about being visious, "Oh, you hit me with a flower"--but Robbie and Lou ain't sharing any credits.

"Vicious" too!

i think "dixie" suffers from Born In The USA-itis, in that its anthemic irony gets lost when it turns into a concert singalong fave. as a song, i think it's perfectly valid.

Yeah, those moneyshot choruses, man. I mean, when you follow them through the verses, you get it, but they lend themselves to being taken out of context, especially "Born," jeez (although sometimes he's slowed it down and done it as a growly solo performance, going from Broooce to Bruce, as much as possible, on a couple live tapes I've heard).
I gotta look at more of Robertson's lyrics, get past the personality problems.

Could also follow this w Drive-By Truckers' sequel-of-sorts, "The Night GG Allin Came To Town."

I think due to his terrible rep his lyrics get underrated a lot

Robbie i mean. GG's rep as a respected lyricist is well earned

Yeah when he hits his lyrics are amazing, just yesterday I was marveling at this insane realness in "Stage Fright"

I've got fire water right on my breath
And the doctor warned me I might catch a death
Said, "you can make it in your disguise
Just never show the fear that's in your eyes"

If we want to have a discussion about if he actually wrote these lines and wasn't helped by Danko or anyone else...I think that is a fair question

Come to think of it, in The Last Waltz, he complained pretty emphatically about The Road, man, "impossible," and remaining members indicated that was a or the bog reason for his calling it quits (for the whole Band),"he didn't wanna be sweating in some airplane hangar any more" (although the last few studio albums with him were not so hot either). So maybe at least some of that was stage fright. Has he done any post-Band shows? (Solo albums, as noted upthread, took a while---maybe some studio/writing/working fright as well?)

"big" reason, I meant, but maybe bog reason too.

xxpost Danko inhabits those lines so well when he sings them that even if he didn't write them he deserves a lot of credit for how great they come off

"stage fright" in the last waltz really gets to me, all the parts with danko or manuel really...but he's kind of frantic and pitched, you could tell those guys had no illusion in their heart of hearts - they knew the road had run out. robbie on the other hand obviously is ready to shed what he felt had become dead weight, proving he knew very little about what made the band he'd been in since he was a kid a great band.

xxpost Danko inhabits those lines so well when he sings them that even if he didn't write them he deserves a lot of credit for how great they come off

― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Thursday, 17 September 2020 19:27 (sixteen minutes ago) link

For real, in fact I had to look it up to make sure cuz I was convinced Danko had to have a co-writer credit on it, same with Manuel and "The Shape I In"...now that I think about maybe the most important aspect of the Band dynamic is that Robbie needed SOMEONE to write for, that on some deeply empathic level he understood Helm, Danko, and Manuel in ways maybe they didn't and so was able to craft songs for them "Dixie", "Stage Fright", "Shape" that cut so to core that seems hard to believe the singer wasn't the writer, which speaks to both Robbie's skills and theirs, which makes his "betrayal" of them even more cutting & cruel, at least from the outside.

But obv as much as they needed him, he needed them.

Also does Robbie still have beef with Dylan (or vice versa?)

Huh maybe not

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/robbie-robertson-explains-why-he-turned-down-bob-dylans-new-album-1022791/

Right, he was writing for those guys the same way Ellington would write for his soloists
xxp

dylan asking robertson to play on his new album sounds like a tall tale to me, but who knows

I always think Robertson as one of those cases of a super talented person who knew all the right moves and absorbed all the great influences, but at the same time is just deep-down fundamentally uncool and uncharismatic, and nothing can change it.

idk if his problem is that he's uncool or uncharismatic. i think he has a bit of a capitalist/ambitious streak that makes him come across as "fake" to people like levon and co. who are all about the music, maaan

I think Manuel's decline as as songwriter (assuming caused or at least made worse by alcohol and drugs) is an unsung part of the Band's decline

For all the talk about "Robbie wrote all the songs" - on Big Pink Manuel is big presence - co-write w/Dylan on Tears of Rage, and three solo songwriting credits - In a Station, We Can Talk, and Lonesome Suzie

on The Band it's three co-writes with Robbie - When You Awake, Whispering Pines, and Jawbone

Stagefright it's down to two co-writes - Sleeping and Just Another Whistle Stop

then two co-writes (Acacian Driftwood, Ring Your Bell) and a solo (hobo jungle) - nothing on Islands (not that anyone is clamoring for credit on that)

but look at the list those are some of the truly great Band songs imo, his contribution is way underplayed by Robbie's mythmaking

xp to me

i think he actually is pretty charismatic as a speaker, and considering how much time the last waltz spent on interviewing him, scorsese thought so too.

lots of fan fiction itt. at the level of one directioner shippers tbh

Care to set things straight Robbie?

but look at the list those are some of the truly great Band songs imo, his contribution is way underplayed by Robbie's mythmaking

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, September 17, 2020 3:36 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

not only that, they're the band's most unconventional and quirkiest tracks, the ones that really feel like they connect to that old, weird america they were always going on about

definitely - "Jawbone" is just a piece of magic, so anthemic but almost falling over itself, don't know how they did that

feel like there's something weird w/the time signature but i don't know that stuff, sund4r if you are lurking let me know

Remember too on The Basement Tapes Manuel has some solo comps that were actually Big Pink outtakes.

oh yeah! that adds Rubin Remus, Katie's Been Gone, Orange Juice Blues as writes or co-writes

I quick made playlist "album" sequence on Spotify....I'd put this up against and Band record:

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2YiHodVA5wIgMgcIkPmwDa?si=o_BGLHJ2T8qC-UbdM494nw