Hillary Clinton: Classic or Dud?

bc she is a metaphor of a dying empire

might be a prelude of things to come from Dem establishment folks if Bernie manages to get the nomination

I mean, she's not an unimportant figure. Lots of people preferred Sanders but still supported and respected Clinton.

yeah in the same way i prefer socialism but support and respect its murderous alternative

This “bernie is sexist” meme could sink him honestly. It doesn’t have to be coherent—the idea is just to tag someone with a label that would-be supporters would to distance themselves from, create an “ick” factor. If he wins the nomination and party bigshots don’t campaign for him on this ground, it will definitely suppress turnout. How much i can’t say

imagine the unanimously warm reception she'd get at a Sanders rally

Alfred, don't be naïve. This hit is Fort Sumter.

The most hilarious thing about this discussion is that it comes just as Bernie apologized for an attack on Biden by a surrogate in the Guardian. If the centrists attack, it's not because Clinton has sent the secret centrist cabal signal, it's because they can give as good as they receive, and attacks would anyway intensify as the campaign heats up.

waht

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479084-sanders-apologizes-to-biden-for-supporters-op-ed

Alfred, don't be naïve. This hit is Fort Sumter.

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius),

Don't be melodramatic.

xp wtf does this have to do w hrc comments

Biden is Hillary Clinton in drag IIRC

We can still think the "sexist" tag is unfair and that it is weirdly gross for Clinton, not even a candidate at this point, obsessively railing against Sanders in a bizarrely personal way over the last few years. Not sure what it proves that Teachout wrote a piece on Biden that essentially says what the ILE "senator from Citibank" thread says and Sanders still apologized for it. xps

*to obsessively rail

x-post: Oh, I'm just laughing at the Fort Sumter comparisons and stuff like that. Poor innocent little Bernie, being dastardly attacked while he is away doing his duty. As if this isn't absolutely par for the course in any primary.

no it's not remotely "par for the course," this isn't standard fare late-primary surrogate warfare

This is the (still) face of the DNC throwing "nobody likes him" and "misogynist" bombs at the arguable frontrunner in an effort to sink his campaign, prior even to Iowa

Hillary Clinton is pretty clearly not the face of the DNC, Sanders is pretty clearly not the frontrunner, and this is pretty clearly par for the course.

I might not be American but I'm older than twelve

ok I'll play: who is the face of the DNC, if not the prior party nominee with the highest name recognition? I missed it, did theye revoke her card?

yeah this is a step beyond par for the course. I'm normally an HRC defender but jesus christ this is not helpful and she should go away for a while.

"might be a prelude of things to come from Dem establishment folks if Bernie manages to get the nomination"

I'd hate to think they'd sacrifice a chance at the WH and allow Trump to win again but WTF I constantly think people are better than they actually are

Fred to your second point, you are being disingenuous or really again just have no idea what you're talking about

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/iowa-poll/caucus/2020/01/10/iowa-caucuses-2020-iowa-poll-bernie-sanders-first-place/4427736002/

increasringly leaning toward "str8 troll" theory in that other thread

If you look at the whole race, instead of cherry-picking a single poll, Biden is pretty clearly the frontrunner: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primary-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo

And Tom Perez is the face of the DNC. Clinton is the last nominee, no need to call her anything else.

The idea that I'm being disingenuous or a troll for stating something really kinda basic mostly shows how far away from reality the Sanders discourse can be.

I mean, all she had to say was a variation on "Donald Trump is an existential threat, and while Bernie isn't my candidate, I'll campaign for him should he win the primary. "

Fred stop it, I wrote "arguably" which it is because a) I referred particularly to Iowa and b) I knew you'd make it an argument

"Tom Perez is the face of the DNC"

lol

If one in one hundred Americans know who Tom Perez is I'll eat Fred's shoes.

Sure, but you could say the same about the DNC anyway, so...

if after thousands of these tussles you still haven't registered "DNC" as shorthand for "broader Dem establishment" I don't know what to tell you

It's still crap

if after thousands of these tussles you still haven't registered "DNC" as shorthand for "broader Dem establishment" I don't know what to tell you

Yes; it's not a set of initials that refers to an actual thing - it's a trigger word, like "neoliberal."

Oh, great.

Also the 538 forecast for Iowa is that Biden has a 37% chance of winning, and Bernie has 20%.

efective derail, shame on me

. I'm normally an HRC defender but jesus christ this is not helpful and she should go away for a while.

Is it really that unhelpful to Bernard?

v excited for everyone to forget this by tomorrow

anyway I concede your point, Fred, that an ill-advised comment by Hillary Clinton which ZEPHYR TEACHOUT JOE BIDEN BERBIE BROS!

I mean, all she had to say was a variation on "Donald Trump is an existential threat, and while Bernie isn't my candidate, I'll campaign for him should he win the primary. "

Yeah, the irony of endlessly attacking one of the leading candidates for not being a team player is frankly breathtaking.

If you wanna teachout, teachout.

some truly hilarious, bordering-on-science-fiction takes itt. never change, ILX H*ll*ry Threads

"Tom Perez is the face of the DNC"

lol no normal person knows who he is

i've shaken Z Teachout's hand; she's a winner

Ironically HRC’s comments will only solidify Sanders’s support among ‘deplorables’ , to the extent he has some...but that won’t be of much help until and unless he gets the nomination.

i met hillary in 2000. She leaned in close to my ear and, apropos of nothing, whispered "You know Bernie Sanders from Vermont? I have already begun my obsessive plan to destroy him, and America. Tell no one." This knowledge has been a burden on me for 20 years.

she said that phase 1 of her diabolical obsessive plan would be to say medium-critical things about him when asked about him occasionally in relevant interviews. phase 2 ... is too horrible to even repeat. ride toward the sound of the guns, friends.

This is why ILX exists, to unburden troubled souls.

her main plan in 2000 was pretending to be a New Yorker

to say medium-critical things about him

ok lol

hillary scorning someone as a 'career politician' is magical

and to have this come out on the first day of the senate trial well i never