the cheating thread

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this discussion of "Beltran's niece" etc is p funny

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/effectively-wild-episode-1488-wrinkle-wrinkle-little-star/

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 19 January 2020 15:00 (four years ago) link

Banghazi https://t.co/NpAUb6A6fX

— McNally šŸ—ŗ (@LikeTheMaps) January 20, 2020

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 20 January 2020 18:05 (four years ago) link

lol that EW episode number is cursed..

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Monday, 20 January 2020 23:02 (four years ago) link

lol

Keuchel apologizes for Astros sign-stealing scandal. Said it was ā€œnot like every game we had it going on.ā€ pic.twitter.com/oAS4DewLk5

— Paul Sullivan (@PWSullivan) January 24, 2020

mookieproof, Friday, 24 January 2020 20:56 (four years ago) link

I thought the pitchers would be immune from all this, but I guess they benefited too. Has Verlander said anything? He can get a little self-righteous at times about other people's transgressions.

clemenza, Friday, 24 January 2020 21:55 (four years ago) link

Thatā€™s because of his allergies. Heā€™s constantly battling them with the help of Flonase

But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!šŸ˜‚ (Karl Malone), Friday, 24 January 2020 22:02 (four years ago) link

Iā€™m an Astros fan. To understand the scope of the Astros cheating & the players involved, I logged every trashcan bang from every Astros 2017 home game w/ video available. Over 8,200 pitches watched and over 1,100 trashcan bangs found. The results are at https://t.co/kVtisgUo74.

— Tony Adams (@adams_at) January 29, 2020

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 29 January 2020 18:23 (four years ago) link

wow. nice job Tony Adams!

https://i.imgur.com/IFvOCQI.png

But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!šŸ˜‚ (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 29 January 2020 18:48 (four years ago) link

why'd they bang so little for Altuve?

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 29 January 2020 18:53 (four years ago) link

trying to figure out what the variation of the frequencies of the bangs among the players means. at first i thought it could just be attributed to situational things (e.g., runners in scoring position, or a situation where a certain pitch is more or less likely). but then, compare altuve and gonzalez. they both saw similar numbers of pitches (866 and 776), but altuve only has 2.8% bangs while gonzalez has 18.9%. that's huuuuuge, and can only be explained by altuve opting out of the scheme in some way, like "hey don't bang me, bro". which the other players did not choose to do, it seems.

guilty: gonzalez, beltran, springer, bregman, gurriel, correa, marasnick, gattis, white

total exoneration: altuve, reddick

partial exoneration: mccann

But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!šŸ˜‚ (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 29 January 2020 18:55 (four years ago) link

xp

was typing that out as you asked the question! to me, it means he must have known and told them to stop

But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!šŸ˜‚ (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 29 January 2020 18:56 (four years ago) link

I thought altuve had the armpit buzzer tho.

omg what did you type to find this gif? (Spottie), Wednesday, 29 January 2020 19:08 (four years ago) link

was that the theory that turned out to be tweeted by a troll posing as carlos beltran's niece or something? honestly, around the same time there were several different instances, prominent and otherwise, of people getting all riled up by something that turned out to be obviously fake, and i can't remember what the verdict was

But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!šŸ˜‚ (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 29 January 2020 19:11 (four years ago) link

Nothing proven on that

omg what did you type to find this gif? (Spottie), Wednesday, 29 January 2020 19:26 (four years ago) link

looooool i cannot visit tony adams' site at work because of a content filter (i didn't even know we had one)

mookieproof, Wednesday, 29 January 2020 19:32 (four years ago) link

Manfred policing you

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 29 January 2020 19:35 (four years ago) link

Amazing detective work by Adams. 1100 bangs but the scheme worked for a specific pitch, a changeup for instance. If pitchers through their changeups 25% of the time, then they had to steal signs on 4400 pitches to get 1100 bangs. It works out to half of all pitches for the entire season (or at least within the sample size, which isn't small).

NoTimeBeforeTime, Wednesday, 29 January 2020 20:35 (four years ago) link

wait was Altuve wearing a buzzer thing proven false somewhere

frogbs, Wednesday, 29 January 2020 20:53 (four years ago) link

wasnt proven either way iirc

omg what did you type to find this gif? (Spottie), Wednesday, 29 January 2020 20:54 (four years ago) link

xp yes and obv some hitters are going to see more offspeed pitches than others irrespective of situation

would like to see this broken down by % of ABs w/ one or more bangs

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 29 January 2020 23:46 (four years ago) link

yeah my immediate thought was that maybe altuve saw nothing but fastballs, but i don't think that's the case

i would never doubt anyone who went to these insane lengths, but i have to say listening to a handful of these audio clips, i couldn't hear much

mookieproof, Thursday, 30 January 2020 00:21 (four years ago) link

Just looking at the Jays they used their can against... kind of gross some of the scrubs they felt the need to cheat against.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 30 January 2020 02:42 (four years ago) link

On August 4th, the game with the most trash can bangs, the Astros scored 16 earned runs. Mike Bolsinger, a Blue Jays reliever, allowed 4 earned runs in 0.1 IP. He never pitched in the big leagues again. https://t.co/iEWXSokLvn

— David Spampinato (@DavidSpampinato) January 29, 2020

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 30 January 2020 17:53 (four years ago) link

Data analysis of Tony Adams data: Astros didn't benefit

Used the data from @adams_at to look at the impact of the Astros' trash can banging in '17. I applied run values above outs to pitch outcomes (ball, strike, HBP, 1B, 2B, 3B, HR, out) and compared pitches with and w/out bangs.

Here's the difference by batter at the PA level pic.twitter.com/RyeXPRWzGg

— Bill Petti (@BillPetti) January 30, 2020

paywall:

https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/56750/moonshot-the-banging-scheme-hurt-the-astros-as-much-as-it-helped-them/

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 31 January 2020 13:26 (four years ago) link

Astros were one of the only teams to not host a Pride Night/Day. That changes in 2020 -- it'll be held June 24 vs. Twins.

— Alyson Footer (@alysonfooter) February 4, 2020

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 18:22 (four years ago) link

You knew this was coming: Rose has applied to be put back on the HOF ballot, citing recent events.

clemenza, Wednesday, 5 February 2020 16:13 (four years ago) link

Fuck that repugnant, opportunistic piece of shit.

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 6 February 2020 02:03 (four years ago) link

That he is though he still deserves to be in

frogbs, Thursday, 6 February 2020 02:09 (four years ago) link

tom verducci will be interviewing aj hinch on the mlb network tomorrow at 6pm eastern

mookieproof, Friday, 7 February 2020 00:31 (four years ago) link

ā€˜Dark Artsā€™ and ā€˜Codebreakerā€™: The Origins of the Houston Astros Cheating Scheme

MLB Commissioner Rob Manfredā€™s previously undisclosed letter to Astros GM Jeff Luhnow details the teamā€™s spreadsheet and algorithm to steal signs in one of the biggest scandals in baseball history

On Sept. 22, 2016, an intern in the Houston Astros organization showed general manager Jeff Luhnow a PowerPoint presentation that featured the latest creation by the team's high-tech front office: an Excel-based application programmed with an algorithm that could decode the opposing catchers' signs. It was called "Codebreaker."

This was the beginning of what has turned into one of the biggest scandals in Major League Baseball history. Throughout the 2017 season and for part of 2018, Astros baseball operations employees and video room staffers used Codebreaker to illegally steal signs, which were then relayed to batters in real time. Another Astros employee referred to the system as the "dark arts."

This previously undisclosed information about the origins and nature of the Astros' cheating comes from both a letter MLB commissioner Rob Manfred sent to Luhnow on Jan. 2 that outlined the findings of a league investigation, as well as interviews with several people familiar with the matter.

Eleven days after Manfred's letter, which was reviewed by The Wall Street Journal, MLB announced that it had suspended Luhnow, as well as field manager A.J. Hinch, for the entire 2020 season. Hours later, the Astros fired both Luhnow and Hinch.

The existence of Codebreaker shows that it was the Astros front office that laid the groundwork for the team's electronic sign-stealing schemes.

During MLB's probe, Luhnow maintained that he had no knowledge of any of the Astros' misconduct. However, Manfred wrote in his letter that "there is more than sufficient evidence to support a conclusion that you knew -- and overwhelming evidence that you should have known -- that the Astros maintained a sign-stealing program that violated MLB's rules."

But while the league collected evidence that showed Luhnow was aware of Codebreaker's existence and capabilities, it couldn't prove that he knew how it was used. In response to Manfred's letter, Luhnow presented investigators with a binder with more than 170 pages that cast at least some doubt on the contents of the initial letter, according to multiple familiar with the matter.

These people described the situation as a "he said-he said" between Luhnow and Tom Koch-Weser, the team's director of advance information, who sent two emails to Luhnow in 2017 that referenced "the system" and "our dark arts, sign-stealing department."

Luhnow opened the emails, but told investigators he did not read to the bottom of them.

Complicating matters further, Koch-Weser's responsibilities were reduced following the 2019 season, but before allegations of the Astros' cheating became public in a November story in The Athletic.

MLB couldn't decipher whose account was truthful. In his final findings, Manfred said that the investigation revealed that "Luhnow neither devised nor actively directed the efforts of the replay review room staff to decode signs in 2017 or 2018."

Luhnow declined to comment through a spokesman. In a statement released last month, Luhnow said, "As the commissioner set out in his statement, I did not personally direct, oversee or engage in any misconduct." The Astros did not provide comment on behalf of their employees. Koch-Weser did not respond to requests for comment.

The way Codebreaker worked was simple: Somebody would watch an in-game live feed and log the catcher's signs into the spreadsheet, as well as the type of pitch that was actually thrown. With that information, Codebreaker determined how the signs corresponded with different pitches. Once decoded, that information would be communicated through intermediaries to a baserunner, who would relay them to the hitter.

Starting around June 2017, the system was embellished by Astros players. They started watching a live game feed on a monitor near the dugout and then would bang on a trash can to communicate the coming pitch to the batter. The "banging scheme" lasted through the 2017 World Series, which the Astros won over the Los Angeles Dodgers. Manfred said Luhnow was unaware of the banging scheme.

But everything started with Codebreaker, and the use of it to steal signs continued into 2018 -- not just at home, but also on the road.

Luhnow acknowledged to investigators that he recalled the intern's PowerPoint slide about Codebreaker and even asked questions about how it worked. He said that he was under the impression that it would be used to legally decipher signs from previous game footage for runners on second base to disseminate, rather than live in games.

The intern, Derek Vigoa, currently the Astros' senior manager for team operations, told investigators that he presumed Luhnow knew it would be used in games because that was "where the value would be," according to the letter. But he said he didn't recall whether he explicitly told Luhnow that Codebreaker would be used during games.

Vigoa's presentation wasn't the only time Astros employees say Luhnow was informed about Codebreaker. Koch-Weser, the Astros' director of advance information, said he discussed Codebreaker with Luhnow in one to three meetings after the 2016 season.

Koch-Weser told MLB that Luhnow would "giggle" at the title and appeared "excited" about it. Koch-Weser also said that Luhnow sometimes entered the Astros' video room during road games and made comments such as, "You guys Codebreaking?"

Luhnow denied Koch-Weser's accounts.

Other Astros employees told MLB's investigators that they believed Luhnow knew about Codebreaker, but they provided no definitive proof. Matt Hogan, now the Astros' manager of pro scouting analysis, told investigators there was no effort to hide the use of Codebreaker in front of Luhnow when he visited the video room. In fact, he told them, "it would have been something to show we were working and get validation of our work." Luhnow denied seeing evidence of sign-stealing during those visits.

In October 2018, Luhnow met with Koch-Weser to discuss a potential contract extension. In preparation, Koch-Weser outlined his arguments for an extension in a Slack post that included the term "dark arts." He wrote, in part: "Lastly, I know the secrets that made us a championship team, some of which he[']d definitely feel a lot safer if they were kept in-house." Koch-Weser told MLB investigators that during his meeting with Luhnow, he used either the term "dark arts" or "codebreaking" to tout his efforts. Luhnow denied that Koch-Weser referenced either of those things.

Koch-Weser also used the term "dark arts" in the Astros' Advanced Scouting Department's 2019 budget Excel spreadsheet. Luhnow acknowledged that he reviewed the document but denied reading the tab "dark arts" was written in and denied that any discussion of "dark arts" took place during the budget meeting.

In Manfred's public report last month, he said that Luhnow received at least two emails that mentioned the Astros' sign-stealing. His letter to Luhnow expanded upon the content of those emails.

One was sent by Koch-Weser on May 24, 2017, and was titled "Road Notes (April-May)." The five-page email included six underlined topic headings, with the fifth one called, "The System" -- a reference to what Koch-Weser described to investigators as "all kind of covert operations," including sign-stealing. Luhnow told investigators he didn't read the full email because of its length, and that he was unfamiliar with the term "the system." Two people familiar with the matter said it was generally known in the Astros front office that Luhnow expected his staff to put pertinent information in the first page of any email.

Luhnow responded to that email a day later: "These are great, thanks." He wrote another email about three hours later. "How much of this stuff do you think [Hinch] is aware of?" Luhnow asked Koch-Weser.

On Aug. 26, 2017, in another "road notes," Koch-Weser wrote: "The system: our dark arts, sign-stealing department has been less productive in the second half as the league has become aware of our reputation and now most clubs change their signs a dozen times per game." He added that struggling teams like the Toronto Blue Jays and Oakland Athletics "seem not to care as much."

Luhnow responded two weeks later.

"Tom, this type of write up is very helpful," he wrote. "Seems like our baserunning is still pathetic. What the hell happened to our pitching this series? I mean that was historically badā€¦"

Nonetheless, Luhnow told investigators that he did not read the full email because of its length and that if he had, he would have followed up because the reference to "dark arts" sounded "nefarious" and "sinister."

The evidence led Manfred to believe that Luhnow knew about that element of the Astros' sign-stealing. In the last paragraph of Manfred's letter, he wrote: "I intend to hold you accountable for the egregious rules violations that took place under your supervisionā€¦"

Luhnow was suspended by MLB for a year on Jan. 13. He was fired by the Astros hours later.

mookieproof, Friday, 7 February 2020 22:41 (four years ago) link

On Aug. 26, 2017, in another "road notes," Koch-Weser wrote: "The system: our dark arts, sign-stealing department has been less productive in the second half as the league has become aware of our reputation and now most clubs change their signs a dozen times per game." He added that struggling teams like the Toronto Blue Jays and Oakland Athletics "seem not to care as much."

lol

also fuck these guys

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Saturday, 8 February 2020 00:36 (four years ago) link

i liked

In October 2018, Luhnow met with Koch-Weser to discuss a potential contract extension. In preparation, Koch-Weser outlined his arguments for an extension in a Slack post that included the term "dark arts." He wrote, in part: "Lastly, I know the secrets that made us a championship team, some of which he[']d definitely feel a lot safer if they were kept in-house."

mookieproof, Saturday, 8 February 2020 00:44 (four years ago) link

...that featured the latest creation by the team's high-tech front office: an Excel-based application...

The way Codebreaker worked was simple: Somebody would watch an in-game live feed and log the catcher's signs into the spreadsheet, as well as the type of pitch that was actually thrown. With that information, Codebreaker determined how the signs corresponded with different pitches.

L

O

L

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 8 February 2020 02:47 (four years ago) link

"high tech" "algorithm" "Excel" "system"

=

some dude doing data entry

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 8 February 2020 02:48 (four years ago) link

I found a picture of the mastermind behind "Codebreaker"!!!!11

https://i.imgur.com/1gUXTFX.jpg

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 8 February 2020 02:58 (four years ago) link

mike bolsinger, the jays pitcher who got shelled by the astros in 2017 and never pitched in the majors again, has sued them

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2020/02/10/mike-bolsinger-sues-houston-astros-says-cheating-changed-his-career/4712164002/

mookieproof, Monday, 10 February 2020 18:47 (four years ago) link

What a shit show of a press conference . Ban this fucking team from the game

(ā€¢ĢŖā—) (carne asada), Thursday, 13 February 2020 18:51 (four years ago) link

It's asking a bit much to expect a detached billionaire owner to take responsibility for actions by his "low level employees" (doubtlessly how he sees them). I'm not sure what people were expecting from this. Not to mention that Crane was exonerated by Manfred's report, which was a whole other load of BS, but it means that Crane really isn't obligated to comment on this at all.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Friday, 14 February 2020 08:31 (four years ago) link

xp otm

johnny crunch, Friday, 14 February 2020 12:38 (four years ago) link

xp Crane is very obligated to comment on it, heā€™s the owner of the team. Also, good leaders take responsibility instead of running away from it.

Theyā€™re gonna get the fuck booed out of them all year

But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!šŸ˜‚ (Karl Malone), Friday, 14 February 2020 15:56 (four years ago) link

it's going to be hilarious

omar little, Friday, 14 February 2020 16:27 (four years ago) link

I haven't been paying super close attention the last couple of weeks -- have all the sanctions from the league come down or are we waiting for more?

Miami weisse (WmC), Friday, 14 February 2020 16:29 (four years ago) link

still waiting on sox

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 14 February 2020 16:33 (four years ago) link

according to passan, crane is also lying

Then came the 2018 postseason. During the American League Division Series, a man named Kyle McLaughlin, whom Crane brought into the Astros organization, was caught pointing a cellphone toward the Cleveland Indians' dugout from an on-field camera well. He was removed from the area. The Indians warned the Astros' AL Championship Series opponent, the Boston Red Sox, about McLaughlin, and during Game 1 of the ALCS, he was again removed from a camera well next to the dugout.

I wrote a story about the McLaughlin incidents, and in it, I reported that the Oakland A's had accused the Astros of relaying pitch types to batters during an August series. Further, I reported, two major league players had said they witnessed the Astros hitting a trash can in the dugout as a way to alert hitters.

Again: This was in 2018, more than a year before Crane claims he learned of the issue. The day after the story was published, Crane told another reporter to leave McLaughlin's name out of his story. Clearly Crane knew that a story about McLaughlin had been written. Either he learned of the story's details or avoided them altogether. The former would make him a liar. The latter would make him an owner who ignores potentially injurious information about his billion-dollar business.

mookieproof, Friday, 14 February 2020 16:55 (four years ago) link

the classic question: is he a dumbass, is he a liar, or is he a dumbass liar

But guess what? Nobody gives a toot!šŸ˜‚ (Karl Malone), Friday, 14 February 2020 17:32 (four years ago) link

day-um

You can see how visibly pissed Cody Bellinger is when talking about the Astros pic.twitter.com/QUXiNwzbxd

— Blake Harris (@BlakeHarrisTBLA) February 14, 2020

Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 14 February 2020 18:54 (four years ago) link

How many bench-clearing brawls for the Astros this year? Assume teams will be coming for them.

by the light of the burning Citroƫn, Friday, 14 February 2020 19:25 (four years ago) link


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