2019 Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Nominees

What standard does Joan Jett meet that Pat Benatar doesn't?

joan jett rocks

how is this hard

Yeah, there's that. I think she's a more distinctive singer, I think her history is more important, I think she was a pioneering independent artist with Blackheart records, etc.

I think there are people influenced by Joan Jett, and no one influenced by Pat Benatar. Maybe Patty Smyth?

Benatar was an incredible singer. She trained in opera first growing up which probably helped. Always loved her dirtier vocals too

pat benatar is both an excellent singer and someone who doesn't belong in the rock hall. not sure why she's become such a cause celebre.

but the floodgates are open now, might as well let her in. she's much better than the other jamokes jic mentioned upthread.

Give them time!

letting Benatar in would not flood the gates with fuckin Go West type groups

Give them time, too!

Until Judas Priest gets in, the HoF could be flooded with manure for all i care

That would be ... breaking the law.

I think in my brain I apply the vague standard of impact and influence.

OK, so define these vague terms in a way that excludes a multiplatinum artist who broke significant ground for other female singers in hard rock music.

Also, Benatar and her husband/lead guitarist wrote a significant number of her singles; most if not all of Joan Jett's hits were covers ("I Love Rock & Roll," "Crimson and Clover," "Do You Wanna Touch Me").

I think there are people influenced by Joan Jett, and no one influenced by Pat Benatar. Maybe Patty Smyth?

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, January 15, 2020 12:29 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

lolwut

You don't think that, just off the cuff, Amy Lee was a Pat Benatar fan?

I would be pretty surprised if that tipped the scales for anyone on the fence about whether or not to go see the Doobies in 2020.

Veronica Moser suggested induction meant something tangible to the Doobie Brothers--I'm just trying to figure out what that is. VM also mentioned "bottom line," so I assume that means a financial advantage of some kind.

i dig Joan Jett a ton but i don't find her *more* distinctive than Pat Benatar, nor a better singer.

i do not understand why benetar doesn't belong in the rock hall given that i don't even fucking understand why a lot of people are/are not in the rock hall in the first place

like do y’all care about this long-incoherent institution so much

I mean, influence and relevance is tough...like I would totally put MC5 in

I can also hardly think of a rock band that seems less relevant to music today

I mean if that dickhole Bongiovi got in...

Xpost otm

Let's all agree that DMB not getting in rules and we should troll their fans

I've got to say again that I come at this from the perspective of a baseball fan. The Baseball HOF inductions are cause for much sniping every year, both for who goes in and who doesn't. As objectively as possible, I've got to say that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame bar is much, much lower. (The first few years, when it was Chuck Berry and the Beatles and such going in, the two were on about even footing.) When Harold Baines went into Cooperstown last year, there was (warranted) apoplexy--it was a a terrible choice, the worst in years. But the musical equivalent of Harold Baines, whoever it is, would be a far more legitimate Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee than the Doobie Brothers and Pat Benatars and Nine Inch Nails of the world. I'm sure of this.

it would and will be Foo Fighters, so less legitimate imo

ok, music isn't sports xp

Is Bongiovi a dickhole? I thought he was supposed to be an ok guy (anyway, his band is in, but not him personally).

jon bong jovi

Now, John Mellencamp is (notoriously) a major dickhole -- and when he didn't get into the HoF in his first year of eligibility, he smashed up his patio with a sledgehammer in a fit of anger!

haha Mellencamp is such a greaser

Very unchill, Johnny Cougar.

DMB will get in soon enough.

https://www.vulture.com/2019/10/2020-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-nominees-ranked.html

a decent worst music writing candidate from awhile back, if it wasn't already submitted

oooh classic bill wyman trash

I hate to compare female nominees with other female nominees; that is itself a sexist construct. But for the record,

The case for hall inclusion is that Depeche Mode was a fairly popular synth-rock band in the ’80s and ’90s, a plain cut above the Thompson Twins and the like; the case against is that Gahan has a tedious, stentorian voice and Gore was nothing other than a serviceable songwriter. New Order’s work was dark and complex during this period; Gore’s, by contrast, felt a bit sophomoric, in the literal sense — like the work of a talented college sophomore who liked New Order. Beyond that, New Order has close to half a dozen timeless top-tier dance-rock classics. Depeche Mode doesn’t have one. The nomination feels like the product of an organization that doesn’t quite understand the music it thinks it’s honoring.

this guy is a fucking moron!

Lol at the bullshit he wrote about Biggie

it's amazing how full of shit he is, every time, no matter what he's writing about

Let's all agree that DMB not getting in rules and we should troll their fans

I would like to reiterate this excellent point

He is unquestionably a heralded rapper from a certain time, but this has to be seen in the context of that time — which is that the music became highly commercialized and ever more crudely articulated psychotic tropes about sex and violence, and Smalls bought into it big-time. All sorts of arguments can be made in support of such material, although it should be noted that they change; they’re a joke one minute, real-life missives from the streets the next (and yes, I know Johnny Cash once shot a man in Reno just to watch him die). Of course, gangsta rap is a valid form and, again of course, Smalls is a master, but he’s still a guy who wrote an awful lot of songs about getting blow jobs from “bitches.”

... no one tell him what "Afternoon Delight" is about or what The Loving Spoonful are named after

"how dare you talk crudely about sex, this is rock and roll" *puts on Little Richard* "ah yes, that's the stuff"

This is the left-field choice for this year. Much beloved by fans of tough ’70s rock, the band is known in the U.S. for a couple of semi-novelty hits from the middle part of that decade: “Jailbreak” and “The Boys Are Back in Town,” the latter a pop-rock confection for the ages. Leader Phil Lynott, who played bass, also wrote a goofy thing called “The Cowboy Song,” which on a good night makes you think it might be the greatest rock song ever written. He produced some interesting stuff as a solo act after disbanding Thin Lizzy but died a few years later after becoming debilitated from heroin addiction. Like most critics, I like Lynott’s stuff and carefully collected his more obscure work back in the day, but now it feels like another pet act whose nomination was brokered by someone in the nomination room, like the Zombies’ last year, rather than part of an effort to capture the history of the music fairly. I don’t really think Thin Lizzy is Hall of Fame material.

this guy has never heard a Thin Lizzy song in his life has he

Eh, Thin Lizzy does nothing for me. I don't viscerally hate them the way I hate T. Rex, I just think they're massively overpraised.

the album cuts and not the singles is where the greatness lies imo but i don't doubt you've dug deep.

Wait, viscerally hate T. Rex!?

Xpost Whereas Bill Wyman... hasn't.

I love Lizzy

Depeche Mode doesn’t have one

They have a song that became so popular it has a fucking line dance you choad.

The irony of a metal guru hating T Rex!

Veronica Moser suggested induction meant something tangible to the Doobie Brothers--I'm just trying to figure out what that is. VM also mentioned "bottom line," so I assume that means a financial advantage of some kind.

― clemenza, Wednesday, January 15, 2020 12:38 PM (forty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I mean, I suppose it's possible. I know that whenever I hear ads for shows by bands like Chicago or Journey, the fact that they're in the HoF is always mentioned.

The hall seems to have given up on Rage Against the Machine following two nominations immediately after its eligibility, which was nuts. Tom Morello is a talented guitarist, but the band’s corner of the music world wasn’t all that interesting and felt like more of a niche than an innovation.

ok interesting train of thought