In fantasy stories, how do the Big Bad Guys always get the massive armies of loyal followers fighting for them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVgVB3qsySQ

in the LOTR films I think you see orcs being 'forged' in a way?

Have definitely never encountered that euphemism before.

xp, yeah Saruman's super-orcs are birthed out of weird rubbery mudsacs in the earth iirc. Lord only knows what Saruman did to make those though...

Evidently the LotR films did this to avoid some awkward conversations with children.

In Morgoth's Ring, Tolkien states that Saruman did interbreed orcs and men, resulting in "Man-orcs large and cunning, and Orc-men treacherous and vile." However, the relationship of the Uruk-hai, as well as half-orcs and "goblin-men", to these creatures is not made explicit.

Either there's a whole lot of raping going on, or a whole lot of interracial fetishes going on.

sauron has just straight up humans fighting for him also tho? and like they're "from the east" and in the movie look like a combination of a samurai and a bedouin. problematic

Yeah, Saruman's orcs are artificially created somehow, but it's never said how Sauron's orcs procreate. The implication seems to be that Saruman has found a new way to create orcs, and it's not something Sauron has done before. IIRC, in Silmarillion it's established that orcs were originally elves that Morgoth corrupted, but it doesn't seem like there enough elves left in Middle-Earth for all the orcs to have that origin, and it's not even clear whether Sauron can corrupt them like his master did. So it seems they must breed in one way or another. And even interbreeding between orcs and humans is a thing, that doesn't explain the seeming lack of female orcs... Are all biologically born orcs male, somehow?

Female orcs stay in the hovel and bring up the kiddie orcs, while the big bad orc-husbands go out and get themselves killed for Sauron. That's why you don't see them. Tolkien was pretty old-school, don't forget. Maybe there's an orc middle-class of teachers, scribes etc that run it all from back in "the east" and are resented by the arrow fodder orcs that have to go out to Mordor or wherever.

rejected story orcs

how does this happen irl also

When a Saruman and a mud puddle love each other very much

this doesn't happen irl because orcs don't exist u oaf

is that a reference to something itt cause i haven't bothered reading it

I’ve never read it but I bet The Last Ringbearer has a take on this.

that sounds kinda great tbh

It’s free to read online in English if you google!

Grudging respect for the language and anti-capitalism/industrialism, but Tolkien is such a racist colonialist anti-miscegenation mess.

royalist and sexist should probably be in there too.

idk, I think Eowyn killing the witch-king makes up for a lot on the gender front imo.

it's definitely the most "fuck YEAH" moment in the film adaptation (with extra castration imagery)

but there's no arguing about all the "swarthy" = evil language and the royal bloodline crap

Most Brit fantasy seems to do the true blood trope - see CS Lewis, JK Rowling and even Philip Pullman.

Moorcock otoh