Hm yeah amend that cutoff date, the Jobim album is fantastic
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 11 January 2020 02:10 (four years ago) link
Watertown and to a lesser extent She Shot Me Down rule
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Saturday, 11 January 2020 02:21 (four years ago) link
I find almost all of Sinatra's output that was arranged by Nelson Riddle to be irritatingly facile.
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 11 January 2020 02:30 (four years ago) link
how are you defining "facile" in this context?
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 January 2020 02:34 (four years ago) link
To dislike Nelson Riddle's arrangements is to dislike Sinatra, period, unless you wanna make an argument for Gordon Jenkins or something.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 January 2020 02:37 (four years ago) link
Don Costa enjoying a posthumous sigh of relief.
― a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 11 January 2020 02:50 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJxS_1LzUKw
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 11 January 2020 02:51 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7XncEILEGc
I can't stand any "My Way" except Sid's.― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, January 10, 2020 8:42 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglinkI can't fathom indifference or hostility to a Sinatra ballad tbh.― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, January 10, 2020 8:50 PM (one hour ago)
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, January 10, 2020 8:42 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
I can't fathom indifference or hostility to a Sinatra ballad tbh.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, January 10, 2020 8:50 PM (one hour ago)
Francis Albert Sinatra & Antonio Carlos Jobim is indeed a fantastic album. Somebody was recently talking about the followup that was recorded but never released because one of the two didn't like it. There is also something in Ruy Castro's book about how the Bossa Nova movement grew out of a Sinatra fan club, actually a Farney-Sinatra fan club, Dick Farney being a Brazilian singer who claimed some connection to Sinatra, iirc.
― The Soundtrack of Burl Ives (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 11 January 2020 03:38 (four years ago) link
To dislike Nelson Riddle's arrangements is to dislike Sinatra
Yup. Last time I looked this was still allowed under current law. While I can easily see the intent of how these recordings were put together, I am not moved by his phrasing nor by the instrumentation. Any actual emotion is smothered to death by the simulation of emotion.
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 11 January 2020 03:56 (four years ago) link
nb: to answer your query, that last sentence is what I meant by "facile".
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 11 January 2020 03:57 (four years ago) link
that opinion should not be allowed under current law
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Saturday, 11 January 2020 04:00 (four years ago) link
Jesus wept, but he wasn't listening to Frank Sinatra being 'vulnerable' when he did so.
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 11 January 2020 04:03 (four years ago) link
Somebody was recently talking about the followup that was recorded but never released because one of the two didn't like it.
Think that was me--don't remember which thread tho. Sinatra had issues with his own performances on three tracks and had the album--which had already been pressed and sent out on 8-track--pulled in favor of Watertown. The remaining 7 songs snuck out a few years later as half of Sinatra & Company. Many years later all 20 Jobim tracks were released on a Complete Sessions CD with great liner notes by Stan Cronyn, which detail the whole affair.
― a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 11 January 2020 05:39 (four years ago) link
the simulation of emotion = lots of art
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 11 January 2020 06:30 (four years ago) link
anyway this 'battle' smells of Idiot Repository Thread
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 11 January 2020 06:31 (four years ago) link
I am perfectly willing to place Sinatra on a level with lots of other professional singers. Most of them, tbf.
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 11 January 2020 18:18 (four years ago) link
write-in vote for Andre Previn
― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP)
― pomenitul, Saturday, 11 January 2020 18:24 (four years ago) link
Idk if we wanna get into an authenticity argument but its p easy to argue from Frank’s bio that a fair amount of those emotions as conveyed on record were not “simulation”
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 11 January 2020 19:13 (four years ago) link
I mean when he called them wrist-slitters he was being p literal
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 11 January 2020 19:17 (four years ago) link
Stylized and refined, sure, but “simulated” is a bridge too far imo
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 11 January 2020 19:19 (four years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:01 (four years ago) link
as a kid in the 70s Sinatra was the past, nobody my age cared about him. Allen was modern
I feel differently now, but still voted Allen
― Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:13 (four years ago) link
voted for the one with the eyes 👀
― Disco Cladistic (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:15 (four years ago) link
If we’re voting “less gross” that’s a very tough decision. Voted Sinatra EVEN THOUGH HE IS VERY GROSS because Woody Allen is grosser, on the whole. More insidious. What a couple of gross exes!!
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:16 (four years ago) link
Didn't Sinatra tie up and rape unconscious womenI think that's documented
― flappy bird, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:16 (four years ago) link
Sinatra had people killed, don't know how anyone could think Woody was worse
it's funny (but not surprising) how this comes down to "who do you believe the worst about?" for some ppl
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:17 (four years ago) link
I mean what else would it be, comparing artistic outputs?Woody would still win
― flappy bird, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:19 (four years ago) link
that's what it is and not necessarily
― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:21 (four years ago) link
not sure about the Sinatra bondage/rape allegations (maybe I just haven't gotten to those chapters yet) but there's been more than a couple instances in this Kaplan bio where he lays out compelling (but still inconclusive - hey, it's the mafia!) evidence that Sinatra had his mob buddies do serious violence to people (including murder)
I mean what else would it be, comparing artistic outputs?Yes!
Woody would still win
idk about that
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:21 (four years ago) link
They are both very very VERY gross.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:21 (four years ago) link
even in retrospect and with all of the negative history I think Allen had a greater artistic output
― Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:22 (four years ago) link
Murder (in general) is more logically understandable *to me* than father-daughter incest. Idk about the rest but I feel bad for Mia on account of her very bad taste in men.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:24 (four years ago) link
xxp I don't know about that, there's A LOT more stuff out there on Sinatra, inconclusive it may beWoody has at least 20 movies that are good. a couple are great. Sinatra is a shitty actor and honestly A Rainy Day in New York was fun to watch. also Sinatra is dead and Woody is alive, kind of a flex there 😏
― flappy bird, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:27 (four years ago) link
what it comes down to for me is i never need to see annie hall or manhattan ever again and i am forever yoked to sings for only the lonely, one of the richest, deepest records ever made by fuckin anybody
― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:28 (four years ago) link
can't argue with that
― Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:30 (four years ago) link
I’m not interested in the artistic output of Woody Allen at ALL; Sinatra, a little. When you combine w the above logic, my vote makes sense. Again though it’s worth saying over and over in every post that they are both suuuuuuuuper fucking gross.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:31 (four years ago) link
Manhattan sucksI haven't seen Annie Hall in a long timeI'd still vote for Woody based solely on his 2010s output
― flappy bird, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:32 (four years ago) link
Sinatra raped minors AND murdered people/had people murdered (allegedly), he's worse than Woody just on thatI need to go watch a movie or play guitar or something
― flappy bird, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:34 (four years ago) link
Everyone loses in a contest like this. They are both repulsive.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:35 (four years ago) link
I heard No One Cares the day before NYE, my first exposure in at least ten years, and the way it articulates despair with emphatic arrangements and inhuman singing is as close to anticipating Joy Division as I can expect.
I still love Allen's early comedies, like Interiors.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:49 (four years ago) link
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera),
Sinatra the shrewder, more resourceful and original artist too
I really loved Annie Hall. I remember having a contentious discussion about it at the dinner table with my older brother, and also remember a friend at the time being disgusted that it won the academy award over Star Wars
― Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:55 (four years ago) link
manchurian candidate is better than any of allen's movies
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:03 (four years ago) link
― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, January 16, 2020 12:28 AM (thirty-five minutes ago)
^^^^
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:05 (four years ago) link
I can still watch any number of Woody Allen films, like I watch many old Transformers and G.I. Joe: The Real American Hero episodes
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:07 (four years ago) link
Manchurian Candidate was good but was not as good as Annie Hall, Manhattan, Crimes and Misdemeanors, Zelig or Hannah and Her Sisters for me
― Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:11 (four years ago) link
Frank's acting > Woody's jazz stylings
― An Oral History of Deez Nutz (PBKR), Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:26 (four years ago) link
Woody was p much my comedic hero from age 14-24. I've never denied he's a creep though.
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:27 (four years ago) link
Frank's racial politics are interesting - he was definitely committed to integration and, in particular, making sure his fellow musicians/entertainers were treated fairly, but he simultaneously held very common attitudes that we would describe today as racist: freely using epithets, stereotypes, etc. It was like he was against institutionalized discrimination and racially motivated hatred, but didn't see tossing around the n-word in a jocular manner as being as being an issue because hey different ethnic groups making fun of each other was no big deal.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 January 2020 21:25 (four years ago) link
listening to his frequent lapses into an "Amos and Andy" voice is genuinely painful
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 January 2020 21:26 (four years ago) link
classic "it's a joke, relaaaax, get a sense of humor!" guy
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 21:27 (four years ago) link
different ethnic groups making fun of each other was no big deal.
i grew up with this kind of humor tho w/in TV limits, usually
i take the 5th on any further discussion of its merits, but yay Uncle Floyd Show
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 January 2020 21:34 (four years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Friday, 17 January 2020 00:01 (four years ago) link