are we voting for the creepiest?
― The Squalls Of Hate (sleeve), Friday, 10 January 2020 16:43 (four years ago) link
frank
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 10 January 2020 16:46 (four years ago) link
Satan
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 10 January 2020 16:48 (four years ago) link
we're voting for which one we prefer/think is "better" (based on whatever metric you prefer)
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 16:51 (four years ago) link
not saying Previn would win, but he left one wife while she was pregnant, another while she was hospitalized due to a mental breakdown, and said of Soon-Yi, his adopted daughter: "she does not exist"
― mizzell, Friday, 10 January 2020 16:51 (four years ago) link
or wouldn't win in that casexp
― mizzell, Friday, 10 January 2020 16:52 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxhslOdby08
― by the light of the burning Citroën, Friday, 10 January 2020 16:54 (four years ago) link
Sinatra was a POS but no one is beating Allen in a creepy-off
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Friday, 10 January 2020 17:20 (four years ago) link
Sinatra fucked teenagers too so idk
the peaks of their respective bodies of work are both pretty unfuckwithable imo
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 17:28 (four years ago) link
sinatra is the greater artist imo
they both seem like pretty bad ppl by any reasonable standards, though the worst accusation against allen is worse than anything i've heard about sinatra
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:22 (four years ago) link
plus, sinatra gallantly offered to have goons break woody allen's knees. did woody allen ever gallantly threaten violence against frank? no? case closed
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:23 (four years ago) link
both great, hard to pick really
― Banáná hÉireann (darraghmac), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:24 (four years ago) link
agreed
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:25 (four years ago) link
yeah agreed
― Banáná hÉireann (darraghmac), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:28 (four years ago) link
no dispute there
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:30 (four years ago) link
I mean 'New York, New York' is a pretty good song but feel like he should maybe drop a few more tracks before we start proclaiming his genius.
― Drive Like a Demon From Steakhouse to Steakhouse (Old Lunch), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:30 (four years ago) link
Agree with J.D.
And Chrysler never made a special "Woody Allen edition" car.
https://jalopnik.com/for-4-000-this-1982-chrysler-imperial-is-a-blue-eyed-1721975988
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:32 (four years ago) link
write-in vote for Andre Previn
― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:33 (four years ago) link
write-in vote for Dory Previn
― by the light of the burning Citroën, Friday, 10 January 2020 19:36 (four years ago) link
did Woody Allen ever conduct something like this:
https://img.discogs.com/s4n4IUISW95x2aL48NZyshJoaI8=/fit-in/600x607/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2540730-1412667536-4105.jpeg.jpg
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:41 (four years ago) link
Andre Previn remains one of the most baffling conductors I've sung for; when doing a simple 4/4 beat, his three was an arrhythmic flourish that had nothing to do with one, two, or four.
― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:47 (four years ago) link
some kind of embedded Viennese Waltz perhaps?
― The Soundtrack of Burl Ives (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:50 (four years ago) link
It looked more like he was turning the crank on an invisible miniature Model T
― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Friday, 10 January 2020 19:51 (four years ago) link
truly the jim furyk of conductors
― Banáná hÉireann (darraghmac), Friday, 10 January 2020 20:01 (four years ago) link
is Woody's music better than Frank's movies?
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 22:30 (four years ago) link
tbf I've never heard a note of Woody's music outside of what's heard in Wild Man Blues (which is fine). I really only rate the Manchurian Candidate out of Frank's movies.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 22:31 (four years ago) link
credit sequence of the Tender Trap and one or two of the musical numbers in Anchors Away notwithstanding
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 22:32 (four years ago) link
Songs for swingin' lovers > any woody Allen movie
― Zelda Zonk, Friday, 10 January 2020 23:08 (four years ago) link
Deconstructing Harry > all Frank after 1966
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 January 2020 23:20 (four years ago) link
also Woody's are p much the only good movies Mia made besides Rosemary's Baby and A Wedding
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 January 2020 23:21 (four years ago) link
low bar
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 23:24 (four years ago) link
OK, maybe not "Bein' Green"
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 January 2020 23:25 (four years ago) link
my way >>>>>>>>>>>>>> deconstructing harry
― bidenfan69420 (jim in vancouver), Friday, 10 January 2020 23:26 (four years ago) link
def not
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 23:26 (four years ago) link
that song sucks tbh
you are a heartless dybbuk
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 January 2020 23:27 (four years ago) link
oic i meant "Bein' Green"
"My Way" is tripe
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 January 2020 23:28 (four years ago) link
someone told me Sinatra secretly hated "My Way" but i can't confirm
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 10 January 2020 23:29 (four years ago) link
Sinatra's best work either rings with insouciance or wallows in vulnerability. By the time of "My Way" all you're hearing is ego and anger curdled into a kind of self-righteousness.
"Bein' Green" is fine cuz its playful
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 January 2020 23:30 (four years ago) link
Annie Hall means a lot more to me than anything I know by Sinatra.
― Un sang impur (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 January 2020 00:53 (four years ago) link
I have no connection whatever to work by either of these guys. Or Mia Farrow.
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Saturday, 11 January 2020 01:07 (four years ago) link
I can't stand any "My Way" except Sid's.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 January 2020 01:42 (four years ago) link
I can't fathom indifference or hostility to a Sinatra ballad tbh.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 January 2020 01:50 (four years ago) link
Woah back up, we're dismissing *all* Frank after 66? The Jobim album was 67 (his last Grammy nod if it means owt).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQYaLNF8l8M
― piscesx, Saturday, 11 January 2020 01:55 (four years ago) link
Hm yeah amend that cutoff date, the Jobim album is fantastic
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 11 January 2020 02:10 (four years ago) link
Watertown and to a lesser extent She Shot Me Down rule
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Saturday, 11 January 2020 02:21 (four years ago) link
I find almost all of Sinatra's output that was arranged by Nelson Riddle to be irritatingly facile.
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 11 January 2020 02:30 (four years ago) link
how are you defining "facile" in this context?
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 January 2020 02:34 (four years ago) link
To dislike Nelson Riddle's arrangements is to dislike Sinatra, period, unless you wanna make an argument for Gordon Jenkins or something.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 11 January 2020 02:37 (four years ago) link
― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP)
― pomenitul, Saturday, 11 January 2020 18:24 (four years ago) link
Idk if we wanna get into an authenticity argument but its p easy to argue from Frank’s bio that a fair amount of those emotions as conveyed on record were not “simulation”
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 11 January 2020 19:13 (four years ago) link
I mean when he called them wrist-slitters he was being p literal
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 11 January 2020 19:17 (four years ago) link
Stylized and refined, sure, but “simulated” is a bridge too far imo
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 11 January 2020 19:19 (four years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:01 (four years ago) link
as a kid in the 70s Sinatra was the past, nobody my age cared about him. Allen was modern
I feel differently now, but still voted Allen
― Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:13 (four years ago) link
voted for the one with the eyes 👀
― Disco Cladistic (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:15 (four years ago) link
If we’re voting “less gross” that’s a very tough decision. Voted Sinatra EVEN THOUGH HE IS VERY GROSS because Woody Allen is grosser, on the whole. More insidious. What a couple of gross exes!!
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:16 (four years ago) link
Didn't Sinatra tie up and rape unconscious womenI think that's documented
― flappy bird, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:16 (four years ago) link
Sinatra had people killed, don't know how anyone could think Woody was worse
it's funny (but not surprising) how this comes down to "who do you believe the worst about?" for some ppl
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:17 (four years ago) link
I mean what else would it be, comparing artistic outputs?Woody would still win
― flappy bird, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:19 (four years ago) link
that's what it is and not necessarily
― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:21 (four years ago) link
not sure about the Sinatra bondage/rape allegations (maybe I just haven't gotten to those chapters yet) but there's been more than a couple instances in this Kaplan bio where he lays out compelling (but still inconclusive - hey, it's the mafia!) evidence that Sinatra had his mob buddies do serious violence to people (including murder)
I mean what else would it be, comparing artistic outputs?Yes!
Woody would still win
idk about that
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:21 (four years ago) link
They are both very very VERY gross.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:21 (four years ago) link
even in retrospect and with all of the negative history I think Allen had a greater artistic output
― Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:22 (four years ago) link
Murder (in general) is more logically understandable *to me* than father-daughter incest. Idk about the rest but I feel bad for Mia on account of her very bad taste in men.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:24 (four years ago) link
xxp I don't know about that, there's A LOT more stuff out there on Sinatra, inconclusive it may beWoody has at least 20 movies that are good. a couple are great. Sinatra is a shitty actor and honestly A Rainy Day in New York was fun to watch. also Sinatra is dead and Woody is alive, kind of a flex there 😏
― flappy bird, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:27 (four years ago) link
what it comes down to for me is i never need to see annie hall or manhattan ever again and i am forever yoked to sings for only the lonely, one of the richest, deepest records ever made by fuckin anybody
― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:28 (four years ago) link
can't argue with that
― Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:30 (four years ago) link
I’m not interested in the artistic output of Woody Allen at ALL; Sinatra, a little. When you combine w the above logic, my vote makes sense. Again though it’s worth saying over and over in every post that they are both suuuuuuuuper fucking gross.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:31 (four years ago) link
Manhattan sucksI haven't seen Annie Hall in a long timeI'd still vote for Woody based solely on his 2010s output
― flappy bird, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:32 (four years ago) link
Sinatra raped minors AND murdered people/had people murdered (allegedly), he's worse than Woody just on thatI need to go watch a movie or play guitar or something
― flappy bird, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:34 (four years ago) link
Everyone loses in a contest like this. They are both repulsive.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:35 (four years ago) link
I heard No One Cares the day before NYE, my first exposure in at least ten years, and the way it articulates despair with emphatic arrangements and inhuman singing is as close to anticipating Joy Division as I can expect.
I still love Allen's early comedies, like Interiors.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:49 (four years ago) link
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera),
Sinatra the shrewder, more resourceful and original artist too
I really loved Annie Hall. I remember having a contentious discussion about it at the dinner table with my older brother, and also remember a friend at the time being disgusted that it won the academy award over Star Wars
― Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 00:55 (four years ago) link
manchurian candidate is better than any of allen's movies
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:03 (four years ago) link
― american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, January 16, 2020 12:28 AM (thirty-five minutes ago)
^^^^
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:05 (four years ago) link
I can still watch any number of Woody Allen films, like I watch many old Transformers and G.I. Joe: The Real American Hero episodes
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:07 (four years ago) link
Manchurian Candidate was good but was not as good as Annie Hall, Manhattan, Crimes and Misdemeanors, Zelig or Hannah and Her Sisters for me
― Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:11 (four years ago) link
Frank's acting > Woody's jazz stylings
― An Oral History of Deez Nutz (PBKR), Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:26 (four years ago) link
Woody was p much my comedic hero from age 14-24. I've never denied he's a creep though.
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 January 2020 01:27 (four years ago) link
I used to enjoy a few woody films but couldn’t make it through Manhattan, it seemed like just real bullshit. Annie Hall is classic obv. But Frank is a dude I’ll always have time for. Ever since I was a kid I liked the guy, but it helps that I was exposed to his lonely guy just thinkin bout things albums early on and not his bombastic coasting legend LPs from the ‘70s on (though as far as the ‘70s go his Jobim collabs are vv nice). Good actor too.
― omar little, Thursday, 16 January 2020 03:24 (four years ago) link
The last Woody film I liked was Deconstructing Harry since it was a pretty bleak piece of self loathing, vs being mildly self deprecating.
― omar little, Thursday, 16 January 2020 03:58 (four years ago) link
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, January 15, 2020
I like this comment!
― Dan S, Thursday, 16 January 2020 05:37 (four years ago) link
tbh I might even say Frank's acting >> Woody's "acting"
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Thursday, 16 January 2020 19:58 (four years ago) link
omar otm, tho the 2 eps i saw of his sitcom w/ Elaine May were better than expected
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 January 2020 20:02 (four years ago) link
manchurian candidate is better than any of quisper tarantino's movies, what's yr effin point
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 January 2020 20:04 (four years ago) link
Tisa Farrow has a more interesting filmography than Mia Farrow
― Ward Fowler, Thursday, 16 January 2020 20:14 (four years ago) link
Sleeper is funnier than Dirty Dingus Magee
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 January 2020 20:21 (four years ago) link
Frank basically desegregated Las Vegas, whereas I'm not sure Woody knows what nonwhite people are.
― Pete Swine Cave (Eliza D.), Thursday, 16 January 2020 20:29 (four years ago) link
Frank basically desegregated Las Vegas
ehh this is a stretch
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 January 2020 20:40 (four years ago) link
the racial patter w/ Sammy from some of the Rat Pack live recordings is less than sensitive
I'm not sure Woody knows what nonwhite people are
puts a lotta old jazz records on his soundtracks
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 January 2020 20:58 (four years ago) link
A regular Woody E. B. DuBois.
― The Traveling Wilkes-Barre's (PBKR), Thursday, 16 January 2020 21:11 (four years ago) link
Frank's racial politics are interesting - he was definitely committed to integration and, in particular, making sure his fellow musicians/entertainers were treated fairly, but he simultaneously held very common attitudes that we would describe today as racist: freely using epithets, stereotypes, etc. It was like he was against institutionalized discrimination and racially motivated hatred, but didn't see tossing around the n-word in a jocular manner as being as being an issue because hey different ethnic groups making fun of each other was no big deal.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 January 2020 21:25 (four years ago) link
listening to his frequent lapses into an "Amos and Andy" voice is genuinely painful
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 January 2020 21:26 (four years ago) link
classic "it's a joke, relaaaax, get a sense of humor!" guy
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 16 January 2020 21:27 (four years ago) link
different ethnic groups making fun of each other was no big deal.
i grew up with this kind of humor tho w/in TV limits, usually
i take the 5th on any further discussion of its merits, but yay Uncle Floyd Show
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 January 2020 21:34 (four years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Friday, 17 January 2020 00:01 (four years ago) link