The Colombia/Ecuador/Venezuela Mess or Let's Place Bets on How Long Before the U.S. Backs a Colombian War With Venezuela

Just reading this thread and came across the following:

Saying US involvement sucks doesn't contradict the notion that Russian involvement sucks even more. Plus looking at the history of US involvement, Venezuela is at the moment, very far from the worst. Also very far from the worst Russia has offered outside and within its borders.

The US military has killed, at a very conservative estimate, at least 12 million people in various "interventions" around the world since the end of World War II. Probably more. That dwarfs anything Russia has done in the same period of time.

yeah but america is the good guys tho

I'm sorry, that number is just completely pulled out of thin air. But even then I don't think it 'dwarfs' 2 million dead civilians in Afghanistan in the eighties.

The refusal to acknowledge local agency in creating the violent uprisings that ended colonialism all over the world isn't actually progressive at all.

Lol just catching up on Guaido:

Even Guaido looked shocked at the applause, like wow you guys really are fucked up

— Dwayne (@dwayne937) February 5, 2020

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/26/bolivia-dismissed-its-october-elections-fraudulent-our-research-found-no-reason-suspect-fraud/

I bumped the Morales thread with that story but it can live here too of course.

Ah, my bad, I didn't know about that thread and thought this was the one for all Central/South American socialism politics stuff

The imperialists will say Morales should not have stood in the first place to defend this.

The obvious 'defence' is that the statistical evidence really don't matter, and that the OAS report investigated and found irregularities on the ground in Bolivia

But yes, of course Morales shouldn't have stood, it's insane to claim that as an 'imperialistic' view.

Btw the OAS report is out in English, if people want to read it: http://www.oas.org/fpdb/press/Audit-Report-EN-vFINAL.pdf

"The obvious 'defence' is that the statistical evidence really don't matter"

Says the Nate Silver fan. Really pathetic.

I just posted 95 pages of evidence as to why the statistics don't matter. 'Yeah but you like Nate Silver' is a weak comeback, even for you.

Thread revived with a report contesting the evidence and all you do is post it again? You really love coups don't you?

Read the report, mate

Had more time to compare and contrast, and it's worse than I expected. The MIT analysis finds that there is no spike after the count was stopped, that is after 84% was counted. But the OAS report claimed to find a spike later on, after 95% was counted. That is, their story is that the count was stopped and done in secret, and the cheating started once it seemed necessary. That story might be wrong, or made up by the OAS, but it is kinda inexplicable that the WaPo article doesn't even mention it.

Fundamentally you just don't get it. Doubts have been placed in the report to justify the coup, but then it's what has been done since then too, and the repression of indigenous peoples and their democratic rights. I mean they've installed a puppet in place, forming alliances with Bolsanaro, who did not run against Lula.

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2020/02/bolivias-coup-in-practice

Just read the report, mate

if you read the MIT report (linked in the WaPo article) it does actually mention that the OAS claimed to find a spike at 95% and that's what their statistical analysis attempts to address.

Fred - read less reports and get your head out of your arsehole, mate

Citation needed, ufo. I'm on my phone but the MIT report specifically says it analyzes based on the trendline of the first 84%

It's on page 1...

the OAS claims irregularities in the trend both from 84% with 95% onwards being particularly bad. the MIT report finds that the entirety of the final result is explainable by the trend before that.

anyway regardless of the substance of any irregularities, in the vote trend or otherwise, there's still absolutely no justification for the military coup that occurred which is the ultimate principle.

I agree on the second point. But the thread was bumped because of the MIT report, so that is of course what I'm writing about. And the first point is just wrong. The OAS report goes into detail on irregularities in specific districts happening right as the count hits 95%, this just simply can't be explained by voting trends happening elsewhere at earlier times. It's bad use of statistics.

The MAS is favored to win the new election, and the nightmare right-wing government will hopefully soon be over. A lot of things can be true at once, and believing that 1) perpetual reelection is bad and Morales should have never stood and 2) the OAS report is more credible than the MIT report, and the evidence of fraud is very convincing, does not mean I can't also believe that 3) right-wing coups are bad and 4) MAS is better than the opposition.

Yup, comfortably holding all thoughts from my big chair in Copenhagen.

Bumbling idiots: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/31/venezuela-us-transition-plan-maduro-guaido

It's an April's fool from the US

The article is from yesterday

Lol I knew you were going to say that

The Venezuelans don't trust the US? B-b-but, I heard you should always trust Elliot Abrams!

when you are so bad at everything you fail even at emulating failure

a “Star Wars summit of anti-Maduro goofballs"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/05/06/bay-pigs-style-fiasco-venezuela/

just reading about this. what a world

my brother sent me that story along with many Red Zone Cuba jokes

a very reasonable doubt everyone had was "c'mon is the leader of the Venezuelan opposition really signing a Microsoft Word template contract for like $250 million with a crossfit merc group to do a revolution and topple a government"
well, apparently, yeah seems so

— Aric Toler (@AricToler) May 7, 2020

AHAHAHA HOLY SHIT, Those Silvercorps morons stole their terms and conditions from @masterclass

They even failed to do the find and replace correctly!!! https://t.co/du7WqcSWH4 pic.twitter.com/fCe5NLlav1

— zedster (@z3dster) May 5, 2020

Full(ish) contract here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/read-the-attachments-to-the-general-services-agreement-between-the-venezuelan-opposition-and-silvercorp/e67f401f-8730-4f66-af53-6a9549b88f94/

One of the first articles this organisation uploaded on its website is by Claire Wordley, the very person who in the months in the run up to the coup in Bolivia was pushing the lie that Morales = Bolsonaro & that he was to blame for fires in the Amazon. https://t.co/GmlepVcuwQ

— Louis (@Louis_Allday) June 9, 2020

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/world/americas/bolivia-election-evo-morales.html

A close look at Bolivian election data suggests an initial analysis by the O.A.S. that raised questions of vote-rigging — and helped force out a president — was flawed.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

someone i went to hs with shared a fundraiser for her troop-husband's friend who was apparently one of the ppl who attempted the coup in venezuela lolllllllllllllllll

Lol.

I'm happy to admit I got it wrong in dismissing those calling this a 'coup' earlier.

This WAS a coup.

— Sunny Hundal (@sunny_hundal) June 17, 2020

7/ Then, it got real embarrassing. In April 2019, we tried to organize a kind of coup, but it became a debacle. Everyone who told us they’d rally to Guaido got cold feet and the plan failed publicly and spectacularly, making America look foolish and weak.

— Chris Murphy (@ChrisMurphyCT) August 4, 2020

this coup's going in my cringe compilation

On the Colombian protests and strikers:

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/police-colombia-acab/tnamp/?

Oh nothing, just Juan Guaidó and friends attempting to appropriate $40bn of Venezuelan state money from foreign banks in return for kick-backs down the road. https://t.co/mfqUv4uGbx

— Elvis Buñuelo (@Mr_Considerate) January 3, 2021

Ecuador's govt are trying to ban leftist @ecuarauz from standing in the 2nd round, even though he WON the 1st round. In Bolivia too, the coup tried to ban the largest party from standing. Its a deseperate measure taken by US-backed tyrants who've lost the consent of the governed.

— Ollie Vargas (@OVargas52) February 13, 2021

The latest round of protests against Colombia's right-wing government have seen a brutal crackdown, leading to at least 43 deaths – but the mass movement for social change is only growing stronger. https://t.co/0IWKqGMpoo

— Tribune (@tribunemagazine) May 23, 2021

Colombia, Celag poll:

Presidential election

Petro (PH, left): 38%
Fajardo (CC, centre): 18%
J.M. Galán (PLC, centre-left): 9%
De la Calle (PLC, centre-left): 8%
...

Fieldwork: 13 May-8 June '21
Sample size: 1,945#Colombia pic.twitter.com/Vxl87gvz6W

— America Elects (@AmericaElige) June 11, 2021

Bolivia’s recent interim government led by Jeanine Áñez persecuted opponents with “systematic torture” and “summary executions” by security forces following ex Pres. Evo Morales’s resignation in 2019, according to a new report by OAS human rights experts. https://t.co/Gatf5cPbGO pic.twitter.com/kfsR6gA8ji

— Kenneth Roth (@KenRoth) August 20, 2021

quiet thread these days

it seems this Roth fellow called the fascist coup a “transitional moment” at the time, so much for watching human rights.