US Politics, January 2020. Because we hate ourselves.

you may be shocked to hear that they're very excited about this and often lack a coherent worldview

xpost

they love war as long as their side is "kicking ass"

what do Trump supporters think? let’s ask ILXors what their strawmen on the street are saying

I wish it were straw men but unfortunately I went to college in Texas and grew up in the deep south

you may be surprised to know that some of us have actually read what Trump supporters are saying

or, like in Euler's case, hear about it because we too live in red states

All you need to know is that if they get any sense that the left would like them to consider a particular position in regards to any issue they will be instantly compelled to enthusiastically and loudly declare their dedication to the opposite stance. Past/future means nothing. Pushback = heel digging.

I'm sure some people on this board have legitimate insight into what Trump supporters are thinking; I just don't think ILX is the best place to find real answers to that question.

Why do you doubt what they are saying? It's true.

i'm sure many more Diner in Trump Country safaris are coming

I'm sure some people on this board have legitimate insight into what Trump supporters are thinking; I just don't think ILX is the best place to find real answers to that question.

― 💠 (crüt), Saturday, January 4, 2020 10:23 AM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

xp

You're doubting people with real life experience with this shit

yeah i'm a lifelong red stater w conservative family and social media contacts and i'll be the first to let you know if i see one ounce of pushback from among his faithful. i would not hold my breath.

i think the problem with the red/ blue divide is the media's fixation on how 'no one really knows someone with different politics any more' -- which in my experience isn't true at all. i know way too many people in real life who have breathtakingly appalling views.

Moodles, I'm not doubting anyone. I don't think the ILXors who responded to paolo's question are wrong per se. I just don't think asking people what their political opponents are thinking about a political subject will result in a complete picture. I apologize for making a snarky throwaway remark instead of making a lucid point.

Follow the leader. That's all there is to it, really.

You aren't going to get coherent independent thoughts about any of this stuff by talking directly to these people.

where does boris stand (at the moment) on various warrings

on holiday with no intention of returning home early

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTrumpSupporters

That reddit is pretty interesting.

I'm pretty sure it's partly populated by actual paid shills but it makes for a useful glimpse nonetheless.

A typical attempt at cross-aisle communication:

Supporter: I am big on isolationism and it is worth noting that the increase in troops was in response to the issue in the embassy under siege.

I am still unhappy to see Trump send more troop in the Middle east and hope that this is only temporary.

I consider myself an ardent supporter and directly going into war with Iran would make me a lot less of an advocate for Trump (even if i dont see democrats as viable for 2 decades).

...

Nonsupporter: I'm just curious for your opinion, what about Pete Buttigieg is non viable, would you consider voting for him as an alternative to some of the more extreme positions in the Democratic party?

Supporter: To me, it is first of all because I was infuriated by the democrats attitude against Kavanaugh and I didnt even like the guy as a pick (too close to Bush).

I Like Buttieig but right now he has embraced a lot of the progressive stances on trans right, And illegal immigrants being offered healthcare and decriminalizing it.

I think he has a lot of charisma and i Hope he comes back in 2024 when the democrats calm down a little bit and become more moderate, id be happy with him as a president after. He has a very uniting message on a few occasions.

That's pretty good compared to most social media political discourse imo.

Sadly otm.

Speaking of reddit, there's also the following attempt at civility:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/

that conversation was kind of the guy politely saying "I'm a piece of garbage and I don't like Trump except I seem to be pretty cozy to everything he believes in and does"

not willing to throw a bone cos they didn't say "libtard"

Do you really need a reddit board to read an endless stream of bullshit talking points fed by Fox News and friends?

'Deep down, I don't like Trump, but the Dems have forced me into it with their xenotransloving ways!'

This really is as good as it gets, ladies and gentlemen.

There was a lot better on the reddit but at least 1st person was applying an actual principle, not just hero-worship, and willing to be critical of Trump when he breached it.2xp

That reads to me more "I like Trump but am afraid to say so" given that they always seem to blame Dems for pushing them into his arms.

Might not be hero worship, but shows them adopting right wing talking points, believing in liberal stereotypes, while simultaneously somehow managing to avoid believing the conservative stereotypes.

i mean I get what you're saying, compared to the usual discourse, it IS more restrained and less jingoist vitriol, but it still strikes me as the type of bad faith arguing that would have gotten me in people's faces in 2004. it's just now there are more levels to this ugliness.

It's the same old loathsome, cretinous bullshit as ever, no doubt about it, we're just at a point where we need to consider different shades of excrement in the faint hope that a change of heart could happen.

(I say 'we' even though I'm lucky not to be living in the US at the moment. Tbf this kind of homicidal idiocy exists everywhere and it's spreading as we speak.)

This one was really O_O to me:

Nonsupporter: Do you think the right-wing media would have been applauding if Obama or Hillary had done this?

Some few pundits might have cynically and reflexively opposed it out of rank partisanship, but they would have eaten a lot of shit from their own audiences had they done so. Any right-wing talking head who criticized Obama for taking out an infamously bloody-handed, state-sponsored terrorist like Suleimani would have been roundly denounced as a media-planted RINO cuck.

I imagine most would have taken the 'Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day' angle. We didn't think of Obama as Hitler 2.0, so giving him a well-deserved high-five when he did something right (like assassinating Bin Laden) wasn't seen as unforgivable heresy, unlike the Left and Trump these days...

What kind of right-wing media was he paying attention to from 08-16?

When it comes to tribe loyalty, this is a classic post from two years ago:

https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7bts5x/roy_moore_is_refusing_to_debate_his_democratic/dpkyfco/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7rFIZUUwAEbmPE.jpg

lmao right wing media absolutely did not applaud Obama for getting Bin Laden

in fact a number of them not so subtly suggested that the body was fake and that the real Bin Laden had been dead for years

So this is pretty fucking disgusting and any “news network” that carries this shit should be destroyed

TRUMP: "These people hate Israel -- they hate Jewish people. I won't name them. I won't bring up the name of Omar, Tlaib, AOC -- I won't bring that name up. Won't bring it up." pic.twitter.com/jCrySCb1Ag

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) January 3, 2020

ugh

in fact a number of them not so subtly suggested that the body was fake and that the real Bin Laden had been dead for years

A guy I worked with at the time claimed Obama nothing at all to do with the mission, and it was Panetta all the way.

I imagine this guy now thinks that Trump himself is taking on secret missions to the Middle East and taking out terrorists himself, with his own bare not-small-at-all hands.

Graham threatens to 'take matters in our own hands' if Pelosi doesn't send articles of impeachment to Senate. "My goal is to start this trial in the next coming days, not let [House Speaker] Nancy Pelosi take over the Senate," Graham said....

Currently, no trial can begin until the articles come through. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., has said he wants the Senate to follow the parameters of then-President Bill Clinton's impeachment trial: an initial agreement to first hear the case and then a later vote on whether to call witnesses....

Graham's idea isn't the only GOP proposal aimed at breaking the impasse. On Thursday, Sen. Josh Hawley, R-Mo., tweeted that he will introduce a resolution Monday to change impeachment rules so that the Senate can dismiss the articles of impeachment Trump faces

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/graham-threatens-take-matters-our-own-hands-if-pelosi-doesn-n1110651

graham going full totalitarian. he's so ecstatic that his iran war might finally happen that he's willing to do anything to please trump

thread

1) The United States is an empire. This shouldn't be controversial, but let's get it out of the way; empires don't all look alike, they do different things with different goals and approaches and technologies, and nobody who studies empires thinks the US isn't one.

— Patrick Wyman (@Patrick_Wyman) January 5, 2020

It's really weird. Denmark isn't an elite, and yet we have a fucked up ruling elite as well. So so weird. Almost like that thread is complete nonsense.

Denmark is not an empire

You’ve still got Greenland.

... and the Faroe Isles?

That's 100.000 people. That's no empire. We're a colonial power, sure.

"Madam Speaker, Majority Leader McConnell, Senators, Congressional Representatives, and distinguished guests, I am here to report the State of our union is strong... except where it is infested with democrats and socialists who would happily destroy our nation and way of life, as I will now explain at length, using as many untruths as I find convenient for my purposes."

Every Democrat in the chamber should stand with their backs to him for the entire speech.

And whiz

All throw their shoes at him at the same time.

good morning!

"They want to kill our cows" for February title, please.

YOUR cows

I shall do it. Give me a minute, ok?

It is done, to quote a well-known member of the trinity.