bojo is king, brexit is on, stuff is fvcked, tomorrow starts here -- new govt new thread new battle

that's the spirit!

On fire today Tom!

I don't know whether he or Warren will get the nom, or be President. Will depend on the economy and the like. But a change in direction may change these trade deals that do take years to negotiate.

A badly negotiated deal will be a danger to many small businesses, for example, and that's a huge Tory constituency.

I was watching a documentary of footage from pre-WWII workplaces in the US and no matter how exploitative the employers were they had a paternalistic bent that looked utopian compared to most low skilled jobs today. Of course the bulk of people who voted this government in won't have to worry about that shit

and "non-regressioN" on workers' rights is being stripped from the Brexit Bill, in more good news

We will need to start fighting for all of it again!

KIDS DON'T WORRY I HEARD THIS MASSIVE MAJORITY WILL GIVE JOHNSON THE CHANCE TO SHOW HIS TRUE ONE NATION CENTRIST SOFT BREXIT SIDE

I was watching a documentary of footage from pre-WWII workplaces in the US and no matter how exploitative the employers were they had a paternalistic bent that looked utopian compared to most low skilled jobs today.

amazing what the threat of a worker's revolution can do to an employer's outlook

it was pretty bleak watching the rise and decline of unionisation

these Tories that self-identify as lol One Nation ones also completely lack that paternalistic bent which is why they are not ONT by any definition. People who believe that Boris is going to use his majority to fuck off all right wing nutters and show his hitherto unseen moderate side are just so fucking laughable, how do they get paid to write this nonsense ffs.

no it was good because now the owners of the means of production were free to trickle down their economic miracles upon the general population, creating the capitalist utopia we live in today xp

Pound tumbles as Brexit cliff-edge fears grow - business live https://t.co/cuFOLbMYUo

— Guardian news (@guardiannews) December 17, 2019

here we go

guys vince cable has written an op-ed for the graun and there's a lot we can learn from in there imo

In the last parliament, a significant group of Labour and Conservative MPs felt the only escape from the tightening grip of militants in their party was to leave. They had the courage to put their careers on the line, to risk ostracism and put up with abuse. Some stood this time as Lib Dems, others as independents. They were wiped out. All of them. I suspect that those who stayed in the old parties have learned the value of obedience and cowardice.

he Lib Dems must be a voice for “leave” Carshalton – where we lost our excellent, longstanding MP Tom Brake – as much as for “remain” Twickenham. For its part, Labour will have to go back to Gordon Brown’s more disciplined approach to spending – and even to Tony Crosland’s Future of Socialism, written in the 1950s – to remind itself why its clause IV pledge was not a great idea.

I would hope that the spirit of cross-party groups such as Unite for Remain, More United and Compass can be mobilised around a shared programme beyond Brexit, to give hope to the politically homeless millions in the gaping middle.

"the gaping middle" come back Gapesy, all is forgiven

Look we must be able to get AKs from somewhere

Such a way with words, Sir Vince.

Sir Vince's turdular way

laying some cable in the pages of the grauniad

I can never really get a handle on why the politically homeless don't like the Lib Dems (Ok i do really, they say they are politically homeless but live at 13 Lib Dem Avenue). Their problem is they want 3 homes, they want all the parties not just one.

Again with the politically homeless. Barf.

actual homeless: i sleep

politically homeless: REAL SHIT

Come on, Jewish Chronicle. You’d condemn people who say antisemitism’s just an excuse to shut down criticism of Israel. So why publish an article saying Islamophobia’s just an excuse to shut down criticism of Islam?
We must stand together against bigotry. https://t.co/7KnlxUrv4i

— David Schneider (@davidschneider) December 16, 2019

TBH if I had a newly-minted 80-seat majority and five years to get this shit done I'd tell Farage 'thanks for the votes, now fuck off'. So I can only assume this is being driven directly by Dominic Cummings. Difference is there's no one who can prevent us going over the cliff this time.

think the politically homeless can be comfortably written off as not amenable to voting for economic democracy at this point

also it's not No Deal if both sides sign off on WTO rules

Like at this point whether you wanna call it a deal or not is gonna be an irrelevance

Zac Goldsmith has been rewarded with a peerage for repeatedly losing whenever he stands in elections

Also it's pretty dumb, Johnson had the potential to benefit from a post-deal investment bounce as there would at least be a degree of something approaching certainty for businesses for the duration of the transition period. Refusing to extend it pulls that rug right up from under the government, and they don't even need to do it because they've already won the election and could claim to have honoured their manifesto pledge from January 31st.

The ultras have the wheel now and leaving the EU won't satisfy them.

"Ho Hum"

You rubes, you complete fucking rubes. pic.twitter.com/mw5u0YfYqf

— stef_wholemeal (@RebootedStef) December 17, 2019

The pound is going to bounce up and down as long as Johnson’s backers can make money speculating on currency.

No redrawal of the electoral map will save the Tories if the economy collapses

looking back fondly on all those warnings about a Labour gov wrecking the economy

'only a strong hand on the tiller can rekindle the economy after the eu sabotaged it, a vote for labour is a vote for a socialist hellworld where your house will be claimed by the state'

The pound is going to bounce up and down as long as Johnson’s backers can make money speculating on currency.

― santa clause four (suzy), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 10:48 (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/12546-pound-sterling-opens-on-front-foot-as-charts-point-to-gains-over-euro-and-dollar

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/12550-pound-sterling-retreats-from-euro-dollar-and-spectre-of-new-no-deal-brexit-cliff-edge

It occurred to be the other day that a sitting UK government has only been ejected twice in the past FORTY YEARS and in both cases it's been after an economic disaster and subsequent house price crash. Otherwise the voters just favour the incumbent.

Love too be lectured by “moderates” how Corbyn Labour is too purist and ideological while they spend three years wrecking any chance of soft Brexit, pressured Labour to a position that turned off Leave voters, fucked away their votes on minor parties and ended up facilitating no deal.

Farage brexit night concession speech Forex market manipulation is the conspiracy theory I'm fully tinfoil hat for

So does Johnson roll back in six months to make his backers more money?

No redrawal of the electoral map will save the Tories if the economy collapses

― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 17 December 2019 10:49 (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I'd agree with this but also increasingly uncertain as to what will be recognised as "the economy collapsing" would be recognised in large media narratives, surely only the fortunes of billionaire corporations and especially the financial institutions are recognised now as "the economy" in this way? The fortunes of workers and small and even medium-sized businesses are already completely disregarded as metrics for a functioning economy by the msm/government

It's the point where the media narrative can't outweigh what people feel in their pockets, and that particularly includes middle class swing voters suddenly feeling the pinch. Tory policy since 2010 has been to insulate these people from the worst aspects of the financial crisis and its aftermath, but eventually there comes a point where you can't defy gravity forever. So far they've avoided a 1992 moment but they may charge straight into one with these clowns in charge.

What about a housing crash? Inflation? Medicine scarcity?

I am actually not trying to go lol we're going to die, and it could all be day 5 strongman stuff that doesn't actually play out. Not all of these things may happen but some of them will introduce chaos if it isn't handled properly. Which is pretty much the only thing I am certain of xp

Obviously they have to trust the opposition to be able to lead them out of the mire as well, which is a big reason why Corbyn didn't succeed despite the government's multiple calamities.

Last time it was interest rate rises. Reckon homeowners are in for some of that?

It's the point where the media narrative can't outweigh what people feel in their pockets, and that particularly includes middle class swing voters suddenly feeling the pinch. Tory policy since 2010 has been to insulate these people from the worst aspects of the financial crisis and its aftermath, but eventually there comes a point where you can't defy gravity forever. So far they've avoided a 1992 moment but they may charge straight into one with these clowns in charge.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 17 December 2019 11:09 (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Is this true though? A big narrative about financial arguments for remain is that they were ignored by many whose fortunes were simply no better prior to 2008* yet the crash itself was a global news spectacle.

*Not agreeing with this fairly fatuous framing which has had a lot of currency, not least because it should be obvious that market jolts are rarely felt in direct cause and effect terms by ordinary people regardless of ripples.

To be clear I'm not trying to undermine your main point or to stupidly accuse a single post of inadequate nuance, just wondering about ways to expand on it.

Everyone seems to think that John Major became a weakened laughing stock partly because of the sheer swinging-dick brilliance of Tony Blair and partly because of "divided over Europe", but it was actually Black Wednesday and 15% base rate.

— Dan Davies (@dsquareddigest) December 16, 2019

From The Guardian:

Does this raise the risk of a no-deal exit on 31 December 2020?
Probably. Johnson could perform a U-turn at any point up to 1 July, when an extension needs to be agreed, but he is not expected to do so. If, in the coming negotiation, the British government refuses to sign up to the EU’s full level playing field demands on issues such as state aid and environmental standards, there will be a protracted negotiation over the level of tariffs on UK goods. If the tariffs are deemed to be overly punitive, the UK side might judge there to be little to gain in continuing to talk at all given the EU is offering nothing for the City of London. But some sort of deal, albeit bare bones, remains the most likely outcome

---

People are sure to get fucked but it's about containing the fire. They are definitely playing with it.

Last time it was interest rate rises. Reckon homeowners are in for some of that?

― santa clause four (suzy), Tuesday, 17 December 2019 11:15 (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Tories have already been accusing Carney of brexit wrecking with BOE forecast pessimism. Surely no guarantee they wouldn't expand the BBC/judiciary threats to also remove bank of England independence and put the treasury in control of interest rates

?

I'm not talking about those who were fucked pre-2008, I'm talking about people with reasonably comfortable lives who have the potential to vote against the Tories in revenge if they feel the government has hurt them. Dire warnings are just that, dire warnings, people don't have to believe them, whereas they do believe the reality when it hits them personally.

I'd dispute that even the group you're talking about was *no better* prior to 2008 because it's the group that's been hardest hit by austerity.

No I fully agree re your last point, that's what I was trying to say with my caveat. Rather was trying to flag up how such a nonsense narrative can still maintain common-sense media dominance. I guess my main point is that I'm skeptical about relying on cause and effect responses from voters. Look at the absolute state of the place in 2019 yet here we are