Imperial Aerosol POLL: The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway by Genesis

I saw MB do Selling England (and more) and thought they did a good job. Still have't watched their Lamb show on youtube.

I've seen them do both and they were both great, though (I'm sure I posted about this before) when I saw them do "Lamb" I want to say they had the Phil Collins impersonator on drums, who could sing like Phil, looked like Phil, and even played left-handed like Phil.

Noted Genesis freak Ryley Walker did a nice acoustic cover of Counting Out Time
https://www.instagram.com/p/B-XvYI6jjlr/

Finally getting into the Lamb Lies Down on Broadway after a period of longing to connect but being repelled by it.

Been really drawn to the way it sounds, the strong sense of setting and landscape, and how it somehow defies the album format, or record or whatever. Part of it is that it seems to exist in a stage of space- and the perspective of a stage is reinforced by specific lyrical cues ("the stage is set for you") as well as the kind of theater ensemble nature of the music. Like, there are very few overdubs as far as I can tell, but it's hardly a 'band playing together in a room' kind of vibe, it's a rehearsed performance.

The thing is, there are all these shifts in perspective, along (am i crazy???) a vertical (???!!!) axis... it zooms way out at times, and sort of plants you at the center of the stage at others. I mean, wtf? Did they record it in a really tall building or something? Idgi? Part of it is probably illusory, as a result of inconsistencies in the lyrical perspective (shifting from 1st person to 3rd etc) that feel arbitrary or even faulty, but now that i that i think about it, must surely be deliberate and may be kind of masterful.

The "backdrop" is very convincing, as a Manhattanite of many years, as well as that vertical element there's a high contrast of bright and dark against clean black negative space, that conjures the city lights at night... Or am i importing the sense of contrast from the artwork? Or my own surroundings?

Seriously, wtf is going on here?

Anyway it's a pretty amazing piece of work, I think THE DRAMA kept me away for a time but I am getting really absorbed in THE DRAMA, at this point.

A good example is in the opening track where the band mostly cuts out and Peter Gabriel sings about the scene finding focus in the lamb's face and his vocal is framed by the arpeggiating keys... That has a very grounding, centering effect.
And then the band comes back in with a soaring height like a skyscraper, then the mix opens out horizontally when he sings "on broadway"

"Hovering like a fly" as the music hovers is another. The lyrics are def a big part of it.

This album shouldn’t work but it totally does and I love it to death.

Love this album, but the first half is more compelling than the second, where (thematically or no) things start getting a little too abstract and unmoored, which is to say, decidedly *not* grounded. Still love the mood of all the later album weirdness, though!

Got to bat for the second half in a big way, although the first half is pretty much perfect and could stand up as an album alone

A lot of Genesis stuff stemmed from improvisation, but a lot of the second half sounds improvised, which is a big distinction. Again, not bad, just not as good as the first half, which is better than most stuff. High bar!

Re: second half: “It” is such a great song, maybe the best on the album!

I've always had a problem with "It" because it reminded me of my local Action News or whatever TV theme from growing up.

The sound on this record is unusually tactile, especially for Genesis, and that effect is increased by lyrics that describe a wide array of physical sensations and locations. The guitars and synths are run through a lot of effects, and the overdubbing is often so thick that the songs have a mix of confusing textures.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1eux1slrpE

I think this might have been posted in another Genesis thread, but it's interesting to hear Gabriel talk about The Lamb being a conscious effort to move from the pastoral to something more gritty and urban, and there being (pre-)punk vibes in the air.

And Banks continuing to hate on it, of course

Of course on the musical side, the album is dominated by Banks

His antipathy is understandable; he didn't think half of the music was that strong in the first place, and then had to do dozens of shows playing it all in order to audiences that were not necessarily loving it.

Kinda curious how The Lamb was the focus of the 2005 5-piece reunion discussions, considering everything

That video feels like a family therapy session.

As much as I love this album, the second half feels a lot weaker than the first - I usually wind up skipping through it after hearing the first disc in its entirety.

I never knew what people found so great about "The Waiting Room", Genesis should leave that kind of improvisation to Henry Cow or King Crimson. On the other hand, "The Lamia" would be in my Genesis top 10.
The remixed version of the record brings out a lot of detail in instrumentals like "Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats" and "Ravine" that got lost in the original, rushed mix.

Any details on what happened with the original mix? Deadline pressure?

They discuss it in the video; they were mixing 24 hours a day, with different band members supervising in shifts, each in charge of mixing one of the LP sides. Banks describes coming in at the start of his shift and finding that the previous team had mixed "IT" without including the guitar track.

I don't think anyone really likes Waiting Room, besides Brad when he's stoned

the 2nd album is for sure weaker, though tbf if it wasn't this would probably be the greatest album ever made

revisited this for the first time since....uh this poll started I guess. starting to come around to the idea that the first record kind of needs the second. even though the first record is insane on its own. I know the band has talked about how they were kind of rushed at the end, does anyone know why it's so long then? it's over an hour and a half, which even for a double is really long. I actually kinda like the stuff that I suspect was written on the fly though. "Riding the Scree" for instance I think really bottles up the way Banks writes his stuff. anyway the thing I think really stands out now that I'm really listening is the drumming. Collins is such a beast on this, even when his drums are buried he's going nuts - the way he plays the hi-hats on "Carpet Crawlers" almost sounds like a glitched out drum machine.

The drumming at the end of "The Lamia" finally being audible was what stood out for me about the remix.

The Lamb being a conscious effort to move from the pastoral to something more gritty and urban, and there being (pre-)punk vibes in the air.

lol. urban, definitely. theater district, to be more precise. album title otm, it's like 'street punk: the musical'

i like the album tbc, it's super weird and gets awkward and uncomfortable but more surreal than gritty, really.

xxp - which remix is this? I have a CD from 2004 or thereabouts, plus an original vinyl, unfortunately it's kind of beat up which sucks because there are so many quiet parts. I am looking to upgrade so if there's a nice remaster out there I'm definitely interested.

The 2008 remix.

To hear Phil's full power listen to the Shrine show from Archives 2 box. And he was singing the WHOLE time. Phil was an absolute monster during thing period.

Also PG has fully copped to stealing the whole story from El Topo.

spending some time with this tonight, the tension between old and nu Genesis on the album feels more palpable to me than it used to -- the pastoralisms and Canturbury-jazz moods (Hairless Heart, In the Cage) feel here they're a foil for the more accessible place PG's that's calling to PG's heart & muse (the title track, Back in NYC, Counting Out Time). But within a few years three out of the four remaining will feel the same pull toward more trad song structure, toward being heard. I find this tension more irritating than satisfying in the album as a whole -- if there were a third impulse to complicate things it might not feel, to me, like this is a band who just can't agree on what they're trying to do. still, when I stop thinking about all that and just sink into it -- such good sounds, a really good flow. I like the proggier bits better generally but when Gabriel finds his pocket, when he plucks a melody he can really bite into, it's glorious.

"counting out time" playing in the room as I type...fuck I loved this song so much when I was a kid, "unexpected dis-stress from my mistress" felt like the coolest damn delivery and the chord sequence was so exactly my thing,

please strikthrough that first "PG's" as you read if you read tyvm.

This album was playing the other day at a record store while i was browsing, and I was really surprised by how good it sounded. I had the album as a kid (Genesis was the first band I did a full back catalogue deep-dive on), and I honestly didn't think much of it then. But hearing it on a proper sound system, the production and the songwriting were both a lot better than I remembered. And yeah, "Counting Out Time" was the one that really jumped out.

yeah it's such a track, and it also sounds to me like PG saying "I want to make pop songs. I like Motown and I wanna make pop songs, guys" and the guys going "...but prog, right?"

The album ultimately does kind of (figuratively and literally) lose the plot, but the first half and smatterings of the second remain pretty rad. It's definitely transitional in discography context, but still cool and full of surprises. And subtle Enosification.

the good bits of "Counting Out Time" are great it's true but i feel like there's a bit of cheesiness - i don't hate that but i hear it - in the delivery, arrangement? not sure what. the opening basically. it's much better when it hits stride

the title track embraces the R'n'B soul vibe more fully maybe

wait i thought the music was written by all the others and PG just added lyrics?

that's the story but idk

also my understanding is that Phil at least had always been an R'n'B fan

wait i thought the music was written by all the others and PG just added lyrics?

I think that's mostly true, but "Counting Out Time" was one of Peter's songs, according to Tony (here).

Tony: "It's all about... early sexual experiences, trying to do it by the book." *embarrassed shrug*

Phil and Peter are both longtime soul/r&b fans, as their solo stuff would evince (if not always enforce).

kinda difficult to figure out what music PG actually wrote for the band, obviously he gets a lot of songwriting credits for the lyrics/conceptual stuff but none of his solo material sounds a thing like Genesis. outside of like the first song on his debut

Willow Farm from Supper's Ready was Gabriel's song too, he seemed to write in that jaunty piano-led style in his early days. Personally I could do without Counting Out Time and most of side 4. As I said on the Duke thread, remove about 15 minutes from most of the 70s-era Genesis albums and you have a better album.

Excuse Me from his first album is another of the Flanders & Swann numbers

Iirc Yes would always say their songs kept getting longer because everyone kept bringing in bits and pieces they didn't want cut.

xps I think Harold the Barrel was all PG too.

and yet their albums are pretty economical! outside of Tales of course. but I never really felt there was a lot of noodling or unnecessary bits on them, whereas yea every Genesis album from like 1971-1981 feels like it could've been trimmed

its kind of rough out there for people who collect prog vinyl, you got King Crimson albums that are full of dead quiet parts so you need clean vinyl, and Genesis stuffs 25-28 minutes on a side so you have to crank it meaning the surface noise is often a bit more pronounced. and you need a good stylus as well. but Yes doesn't have those problems :)