Is this anti-semitism?

This was misreported as being about establishing a Jewish nationality for US citizens. Given that the initial report was wrong, I agree with you. Had that report been correct, I'd be on the side of your FB friends.

even if the initial report was correct i think reading an antisemitic threat into a bill promoting by jewish activists and designed to protect jews on campus would be a strong reach but as u say it's irrelevant now

promoted* by

executive orders are not bills

you're right i misspoke

I’m in Israel now and an American -Israeli citizen told me what he’d rather the USA do is allow USA passports of Americans born in Jerusalem to give the birthplace as Israel rather than just Jerusalem.

― L'assie (Euler), Wednesday, December 11, 2019 9:24 AM (twenty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

edward said had to request to have his passport amended so it didn't say that he was born in "jerusalem, israel" (his point being that he was not born in israel, but mandatory palestine)

he definitely wasn't born in mandatory palestine unless he was born before 1949 but maybe he meant he considers himself born in palestine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Said

lol sorry i misread that i thought he was talking about some friend named edward

tbf I did too for a second lol

any link to this? bc i'm wondering why said's passport would say jerusalem, israel since israel didn't control jerusalem until 67?

or was said born in west jerusalem and btwn 48 and 67 west jerusalem did get "jerusalem, israel" printed on them?

it was in an interview or talk, i think i'll find it hard to find. he was talking about getting a new US passport in the 1980/90s.

current state department policy has been to not write jerusalem, israel - i wonder if it was different in the 80s and was changed. i'd be curious to know that history.

i'll try and find out when/where the interview is from. think i have it on my phone

lolling a bit at Edward Said as "Edward said" as in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0hFQdEUQKM

Edward Said, I'm done with Israel...

What does the bit of Trump legislation actually do?

I say legislation because I'm not up on the difference between a bill and an executive order being a brit

legislation is passed by Congress and is legally binding. Presidential executive orders can be rescinded/revised at any time and only direct federal agencies that are directly within the jurisdiction of the Executive Branch.

Aha thanks for that.

I've seen a lot of strong opinions about the order on my fb feed ... Will it actually stop students discussing Palestine or criminalise the teaching of Palestinian history? I presume what I've read to this effect is hyperbole but wonder about its actual impact.

it will not

actual impact likely to be very negligible tbh, mostly it will just serve as legal cover for academic institutions that are eager to go after anti-Israeli speech on campus

there will eventually be a court case where someone challenges it, most likely

Xp I mean, that might not be 'negligible' ... but I suppose the actual impact of the EO depends on what specific institutions use it for, and how they define 'anti-Israeli'.

the good thing about the EO is that jewish students who experience bigotry will have protections under title vi like other minority groups (since title vi doesn't include religious discrimination). bc it uses the IHRA standards for defining antisemitism there is concern/hope that this could open up antisemitism charges against pro-bds students who use virulent language against israel. presumably it would have to be directed at jewish students explicitly and the fringe case would be like if palestinian activists started chanting "from the river to the sea" at a group of jewish students.

So Jewish students will have protections that Muslim students won't have?

This interacts in an interesting way with the ongoing 'campus free speech' discussion. I can imagine people who normally go one way on that going a different way on this one (i.e. people normally in favour of restrictions on hate speech saying those BDS students are being censored and this is wrong; people normally opposed being in favour for this).

Related question, do that BDS group actually promote the destruction of Israel as such? Again this is something I see a lot of shouting back and forth on and never got to the bottom of. Am aware of the issue whereby boycotts of Israel for x y or z reason that don't also boycott China etc are double standards.

xp fred actually i should beg off the finer points of this i'm not a scholar of title vi and as likely to misrepresent it - i had read on vox explainer that title vi didn't already cover religion but i'm sure that's not true so maybe all this did was encourage ppl to use the IHRA standard? but then within the text it describes IHRA as "the non-legally binding working definition of anti-Semitism" and then adds "In considering the materials described in subsections (a)(i) and (a)(ii) of this section, agencies shall not diminish or infringe upon any right protected under Federal law or under the First Amendment." this is why i feel like it's essentially a PR thing more than anything.

this is why i feel like it's essentially a PR thing more than anything.

like 90% of Trump's "announcements" and executive orders. and like all PR stunts it's intended to play to the base/trigger the libs - and the internet falls for it every time.

all HIS PR stunts

I meant to say

maybe i'm simply reading the obvious out loud but if you associate a religion as a country aren't you by definition conflating church and state?

It was nationality language not country but even that doesn’t appear in the EO

anyways, i think this just happened and i'm reading now so join in
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/12/jared-kushner-donald-trump-anti-semitism

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/political-inconvenience-jersey-city-shooting/603472/

Tired of bad summaries of pop-activist stances on racism; a fixed hierarchy of oppression is precisely the thing most people trading in this discourse go to great length to explain that they are not saying is part of racism’s operation. Anyway I didn’t read past that.

Not my experience but ok

Peripherally, I have a longstanding beef with media/social media overuse of the word "terrified." theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/12/jersey-city-kosher-market-jews/603445/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share I really do not feel "terrified." I have a somewhat elevated level of concern. I do not feel terror.

http://theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/12/jersey-city-kosher-market-jews/603445/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

I don't feel terrified either but clearly many ppl in the Jewish community do. I'd like to be a voice cautioning people to remain calm and see that antisemitic incidents - as terrible as they are - are marginal aspects of our lives, lack government or major institutional support, and while possibly on the rise are not an existential threat to our community. But for many American Jews antisemitism + the Holocaust are the paramount ways with which they understand themselves in the world so it's not surprising they're very sensitive to it. I do think that "terrified" is a better explanation for the hysteria around the EO than any concern about the Jersey City attack (which fwiw, I don't actually see much terror about).

There are so many different kinds of random acts of violence or tragic accidents that can happen to a person, and antisemitic violence seems like such a small percentage of them to be focused on right now.

maybe but those are so completely avoidable that they - and any violence explicitly motivated by deluded ideology - feel more tragic for it

anyways i don't think we're not saying the same thing

remember that whole conversation eons ago about melenchon?

France’s left-wing leader Mélenchon blames Corbyn’s defeat on "Likud influence networks" and vows not to "genuflect before the arrogant ukases of CRIF," the Jewish community representative group.

Just in case you’re wondering how left-wing anti-semitism is going. https://t.co/3zPbVDwdT7

— PEG (@pegobry) December 13, 2019

ffs

Google Translate of the Melenchon statement doesn’t exactly say all that.

i read it. it blames them along with some other factors but absolutely says that.

I read it and while it also lists tons of other factors it certainly does say that "Likud influence networks" were a factor.

It's also just a totally pissy statement, kicking Corbyn while he's down and taking "lessons" from it only as self-promotion.

xpost

génuflexion devant les ukases arrogante des communautaristes du CRIF

It absolutely says that.