Is this anti-semitism?

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Why do you need to "bump to clear bpokmark"?

If there is a deleted post at the end of the thread, you can't clear the bookmark on the thread until another post is added to it.

(You could also unbookmark the thread but presumably you have it bookmarked so you get a more obvious alert that it's been updated.)

Ah gotcha thanks.

This seems bad.

President Trump will sign an executive order defining Judaism as a nationality, not just a religion, thus bolstering the Education Department's efforts to stamp out "Boycott Israel" movements on college campuses https://t.co/0avw7eseMc

— NYT Politics (@nytpolitics) December 10, 2019

The order will effectively interpret Judaism as a nationality, not just a religion, to trigger a federal law penalizing colleges and universities deemed to be shirking their responsibility to foster an open climate for minority students, according to the officials, who insisted on anonymity to discuss the matter before the announcement.

fucking ridiculous

Horseshit

if this flies, is saudi arabia the official country of islam, next?

recently watched hasan minhaj's netflix show about how many muslims have a very conflicted view of the country due to the requisite religious pilgrimage and the fact it's inexorably linked to the land, and therefore the government

sorry for non-anti-semitism post, but my brain started spinning

what the fuuuuuuuuck is that all about

I think we know, and that it’s the end game of multiple political threads that have culminated since Netanyahu took office

I had to persuade my wife last night that this was about BDS and not some neo-Nazi plot to register American Jews as foreign agents

you are correct - the NYT misrepresented the issue entirely. this bill is not a threat to american jews and has been in the works since the obama admin. it also does not define jews as a nationality.

https://jewishinsider.com/2019/12/exclusive-a-first-look-at-the-language-of-trumps-executive-order-on-antisemitism/

don't get me wrong I still think it's stupid

I think she had plenty if reason to worry based on how it was reported. Of course that reporting was totally wrong and caused a huge amount of worry for no reason.

I’m in Israel now and an American -Israeli citizen told me what he’d rather the USA do is allow USA passports of Americans born in Jerusalem to give the birthplace as Israel rather than just Jerusalem.

OK, not to belabor this as it is clearly just a lot of hype from the NYT, but non-zionist Jews born in the US may have a slightly different take in this stuff.

tbc if your contention is that this is designed to tamper down on the free speech of BDS advocates on campuses you are probably right about the intent (tho the jury is still out on whether it'll actually do that). if you're one of the many jewish ppl on my fb timeline concerned that this is the start of a stalinist or nazi style crackdown on jews by classifying them as a nationality before rounding them up into camps -- you have been bamboozled :(

This was misreported as being about establishing a Jewish nationality for US citizens. Given that the initial report was wrong, I agree with you. Had that report been correct, I'd be on the side of your FB friends.

even if the initial report was correct i think reading an antisemitic threat into a bill promoting by jewish activists and designed to protect jews on campus would be a strong reach but as u say it's irrelevant now

promoted* by

executive orders are not bills

you're right i misspoke

I’m in Israel now and an American -Israeli citizen told me what he’d rather the USA do is allow USA passports of Americans born in Jerusalem to give the birthplace as Israel rather than just Jerusalem.

― L'assie (Euler), Wednesday, December 11, 2019 9:24 AM (twenty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

edward said had to request to have his passport amended so it didn't say that he was born in "jerusalem, israel" (his point being that he was not born in israel, but mandatory palestine)

he definitely wasn't born in mandatory palestine unless he was born before 1949 but maybe he meant he considers himself born in palestine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Said

lol sorry i misread that i thought he was talking about some friend named edward

tbf I did too for a second lol

any link to this? bc i'm wondering why said's passport would say jerusalem, israel since israel didn't control jerusalem until 67?

or was said born in west jerusalem and btwn 48 and 67 west jerusalem did get "jerusalem, israel" printed on them?

it was in an interview or talk, i think i'll find it hard to find. he was talking about getting a new US passport in the 1980/90s.

current state department policy has been to not write jerusalem, israel - i wonder if it was different in the 80s and was changed. i'd be curious to know that history.

i'll try and find out when/where the interview is from. think i have it on my phone

lolling a bit at Edward Said as "Edward said" as in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0hFQdEUQKM

Edward Said, I'm done with Israel...

What does the bit of Trump legislation actually do?

I say legislation because I'm not up on the difference between a bill and an executive order being a brit

legislation is passed by Congress and is legally binding. Presidential executive orders can be rescinded/revised at any time and only direct federal agencies that are directly within the jurisdiction of the Executive Branch.

Aha thanks for that.

I've seen a lot of strong opinions about the order on my fb feed ... Will it actually stop students discussing Palestine or criminalise the teaching of Palestinian history? I presume what I've read to this effect is hyperbole but wonder about its actual impact.

it will not

actual impact likely to be very negligible tbh, mostly it will just serve as legal cover for academic institutions that are eager to go after anti-Israeli speech on campus

there will eventually be a court case where someone challenges it, most likely

Xp I mean, that might not be 'negligible' ... but I suppose the actual impact of the EO depends on what specific institutions use it for, and how they define 'anti-Israeli'.

the good thing about the EO is that jewish students who experience bigotry will have protections under title vi like other minority groups (since title vi doesn't include religious discrimination). bc it uses the IHRA standards for defining antisemitism there is concern/hope that this could open up antisemitism charges against pro-bds students who use virulent language against israel. presumably it would have to be directed at jewish students explicitly and the fringe case would be like if palestinian activists started chanting "from the river to the sea" at a group of jewish students.

So Jewish students will have protections that Muslim students won't have?

This interacts in an interesting way with the ongoing 'campus free speech' discussion. I can imagine people who normally go one way on that going a different way on this one (i.e. people normally in favour of restrictions on hate speech saying those BDS students are being censored and this is wrong; people normally opposed being in favour for this).

Related question, do that BDS group actually promote the destruction of Israel as such? Again this is something I see a lot of shouting back and forth on and never got to the bottom of. Am aware of the issue whereby boycotts of Israel for x y or z reason that don't also boycott China etc are double standards.

xp fred actually i should beg off the finer points of this i'm not a scholar of title vi and as likely to misrepresent it - i had read on vox explainer that title vi didn't already cover religion but i'm sure that's not true so maybe all this did was encourage ppl to use the IHRA standard? but then within the text it describes IHRA as "the non-legally binding working definition of anti-Semitism" and then adds "In considering the materials described in subsections (a)(i) and (a)(ii) of this section, agencies shall not diminish or infringe upon any right protected under Federal law or under the First Amendment." this is why i feel like it's essentially a PR thing more than anything.

this is why i feel like it's essentially a PR thing more than anything.

like 90% of Trump's "announcements" and executive orders. and like all PR stunts it's intended to play to the base/trigger the libs - and the internet falls for it every time.

all HIS PR stunts

I meant to say