2019-20 NBA Regular Degular Season thread

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Well it was a 40 point blowout where he had 6-10-8 in 25

Matt Armstrong, Friday, 6 December 2019 02:37 (four years ago) link

Hard to criticize him there

Matt Armstrong, Friday, 6 December 2019 02:38 (four years ago) link

it's easier when he's the first pick on your fantasy time

Clay, Friday, 6 December 2019 02:51 (four years ago) link

*team

Clay, Friday, 6 December 2019 02:51 (four years ago) link

Starting to think Ricky Rubio helps teams win

Matt Armstrong, Friday, 6 December 2019 02:54 (four years ago) link

He definitely raises a teams floor

de-mamba mentality (Spottie), Friday, 6 December 2019 03:33 (four years ago) link

and his smile šŸ™‚

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 6 December 2019 05:30 (four years ago) link

yike

Rumor: James Harden told Mike Dā€™Antoni during last playoff game Rockets had to move ChrisĀ Paul https://t.co/6Vi42TY0U3

— Kurt Helin (@basketballtalk) December 6, 2019

lagāˆžn, Friday, 6 December 2019 17:05 (four years ago) link

lmao

J0rdan S., Friday, 6 December 2019 17:35 (four years ago) link

interesting hollinger stuff on the rookie class:

I mentioned above nine of the top 12 from a year ago are already entrenched starters; but aside from Morant and Williamson, whom else could you say that about from this draft?

Charlotteā€™s PJ Washington is the only other lottery pick who looks fairly bankable as a long-term starter. He doesnā€™t ooze upside but heā€™s a rock-solid combo forward who can shoot well enough to space the floor (42.9 percent from 3), and he murders switches by powering his way to the paint for jump hooks with either hand. None of it is remotely surprising ā€” Washington was the best player in the SEC last year and at the age of 21 is already one of the best players on his (admittedly miserable) team. He needs to draw more fouls and add more tricks in the paint against players his own size, but heā€™s a keeper.

As far as the rest of the lottery? Itā€™s a rough go, man.

Iā€™ll start on a sort-of positive note. Two frontcourt players look like ā€œdefinite maybesā€ of varying stripes ā€“ Rui Hachimura and Jaxson Hayes have shown enough that I want to see more.

Hachimura remains a divisive player due to his limited feel, blah defense and nonexistent assists and free throws, but had a 30-point game on Sunday and may be the rare payer who is so good from midrange that you donā€™t mind him shooting a ton from there. Advanced stats still see him as a strongly negative player, but given his unique skill set and late development curve (Hachimura came to Gonzaga just over three years ago from Japan, where he rarely faced strong competition), heā€™s established a respectable chance of becoming valuable.

Hayes may have the more exciting upsideā€“ the 19-year-old has 28 dunks in 18 games, several of which have been spectacular, and flies up and down the court. But he is also the most mistake-prone in the present, struggling with fouls and physicality while his still-slim frame (hopefully) fills out. His being a bit of a project was a known; we probably wonā€™t get a true return on this pick for a while.

The other really solid lottery pick so far has been Miamiā€™s Tyler Herro, who looks at worst as a threatening bench sniper and possibly much more. The 20-year-old is shooting 39.2 percent from 3 and has shown enough athletic pop to believe he can expand his role. Nit-picking, youā€™d like to see more off-the-ball juice and fewer turnovers, and for him to embrace the fact that 3s are worth more than 2s (a third of his shots are midrange 2s). Can he be a Klay Thompson down the road? Probably not, but heā€™s one of the few guys in this draft where you can talk yourself into such outcomes.

Finally, Phoenixā€™s much-criticized pick of Cameron Johnson at number 11 doesnā€™t look great compared to the two guys taken after him (Washington and Herro), and the 23-year-old packs little upside. Pick him 11th in the 2018 draft and it would be seen as a disaster. But as a rookie heā€™s massively outperformed every pick from three to 10 by providing a rotation-caliber stretch forward for the resurgent Suns.

OK, enough with the exceptions. The four guys above havenā€™t torched the league or anything, but at least they havenā€™t sucked. Good news ā€“ in his draft theyā€™re ahead of the curve!

The rest of the lottery? Well ā€¦ itā€™s not just that they havenā€™t set the world on fire; itā€™s that theyā€™ve been actively dreadful.

Some of the 2019 NBA Draft class together on draft night. (Nathaniel S. Butler / Getty Images)
In particular, six players selected in the top 10 have been setting money on fire every time they take the court:

RJ Barrett: Forced into a lead role at the center of Dysfunction Junction at age 19, the highly touted third overall pick is off to an underwhelming start. The crux of the problem is that heā€™s a ball-dominant wing who hasnā€™t made a huge impact as a passer (3.2 APG) and canā€™t shoot. In particular, his inability to make a free throw (just 53.3 percent) is troubling given all the driving and contact thatā€™s part of his game.

The other worrisome part is his 42.0 percent mark on 2s. Barrettā€™s key selling point was his ability to get downhill and make plays with his size, but he hasnā€™t had enough burst and lift to consistently finish against defenders who are sitting in the charge circle waiting on him. As a result, heā€™s taken a lot of short floaters and fared miserably on those shots (26.7 percent from 3-10 feet this year) His outside stroke has always been erratic and has looked no better thus far (31.7 percent).

The punchline here is that Barrett is still outplaying at least five of the seven players taken directly after him, and Barrett still gives us far more reason to believe in his future than theirs. Barrett may not be an uber-freak athlete, but his rates of steals, rebounds and free throws all suggest impactful talent; he just has to harness it with more efficiency. A more sensible roster around him probably would help too.

Deā€™Andre Hunter was supposed to be a safe pick with limited upside at No. 4. He hasnā€™t even been that safe. Hunter holds his own as a positional defender and can make shots when given time and space; theoretically that makes him a 3-and-D guy. So is Tony Snell. Actually, the statistical similarity between Hunter and Snell is jarring, and not in a good way.

Hunter doesnā€™t have the kind of footwork or hair-trigger release that could make him a high-volume 3-point weapon and he struggles mightily to get anything going closer to the basket ā€“ shooting just 42.0 percent on 2s with a low free-throw rate. Hunter rarely had to create on the ball at Virginia; he has shown some flashes as a right-handed driver but needs to add more wiggle and finishes. Right now heā€™s all straight lines.

A combo forward, Hunter may be stuck between positions. He shows limited playmaking ability as a 3 ā€“ including a high turnover rate for a secondary option ā€” but barely rebounds enough for a wing, let alone a 4. He can guard either spot competently and shows switchability at that end, which should at least allow him to get minutes while he figures out the offensive side. However, he makes little impact in terms of dynamic plays, with just 13 steals and five blocks on the season.

Taking Hunter over Washington ā€“ a younger, better player at the same position ā€” the Hawks might want a mulligan on that one.

Darius Garland stinks right now. I donā€™t know how else to put this. The fifth pick in the draft is only 19 and some of his college and AAU tape looked a lot better than what heā€™s shown in the NBA, so itā€™s possible he gets better. But calling it like it is, at the moment heā€™s awful.

Garland canā€™t defend, he canā€™t create and his shooting hasnā€™t been enough of a weapon to offset all of his weaknesses. Of all the gift minutes being handed out to rookies this year, his are perhaps the most charitable ā€” 28.2 minutes per game despite a disastrous 7.1 PER and equally insufficient defense.

The worst part is that he seems like he might be overmatched athletically. One can easily imagine fixes for what ails Barrett, and even see a pathway to Hunter becoming a viable starter. Garland? He hasnā€™t blocked a shot or dunked in 568 minutes and has just 25 free-throw attempts. His shooting has at least been something close to advertised (37.2 percent on 3s, 84.0 percent from the line), so thatā€™s one positive on which to build. But if he were a second-round pick heā€™d be playing for Canton right now ā€¦ and probably coming off the bench.

Jarett Culver, the sixth pick, doesnā€™t alarm you so much as underwhelm you. A big ballhandling wing who can defend, the idea of Culver has been significantly better than the reality. His halfway decent rates of assists and steals hint at that promise, but right now are overwhelmed by the fact he canā€™t shoot ā€“ 27.8 percent from 3, 43.9 percent on 2s, and a disturbing 43.2 percent from the line. Watching his wonky release in warm-ups, one can see that this is going to be a challenge to straighten out his release so he can be a consistent perimeter threat.

I should note that as a collegian Culver didnā€™t shoot well either, but it wasnā€™t this bad ā€“ he was 34.1 percent from 3 and 68.7 percent from the line in his two years at Texas Tech, and many of the 3s were off the dribble.

Culver isnā€™t an elite athlete either, so at the rim he must rely on skill and craftiness ā€“ tools he has yet to fully harness. Heā€™s shooting 54 percent at the rim, which would be decent enough if he could get there at a decent rate and draw some fouls along the way. But he has trouble getting all the way to the cup ā€” a quarter of his shots are from 3-10 feet and heā€™s only made 26 percent of them, plus heā€™s not getting to the line. Although given his free-throw woes, in the short term maybe thatā€™s a blessing.

Culver starts for the Wolves right now, partly due to injuries, and heā€™s at least competent defensively. But he has a long way to go just to be average at the offensive end.

Coby White, the seventh pick, shoots more than once every two minutes, a ratio that would be a lot more appealing if some of those shots would find the net. That could potentially happen; heā€™s only 19 and at least has shown the ability to create shots, plus his shooting numbers in college support the idea that heā€™s a better shooter than heā€™s shown. Alas, what heā€™s shown thus far is a 47.0 TS% that throws him into the ā€œshameless gunnerā€ bin; as a minus defender with limited playmaking chops, he has to convert at a higher rate to be something more than Malik Monk with cooler hair. Right now heā€™s making an unacceptable 39.0 percent of his 2s with an abysmally low free-throw rate. That wonā€™t fly.

Of all these players, Whiteā€™s struggles worry me the least. Heā€™s already demonstrated a high level of shot-creating ability at a very young age. His speed and shooting ability should eventually allow him to flourish offensively and become a solid sixth man at worst. Iā€™m still, um, Bullish on him long-term.

But he does actually have to make some of these attempts heā€™s flinging up, and a bit more discretion in which ones he chooses to take would be welcomed by all.

Finally, there is Cam Reddish ā€“ who was arguably outperforming Garland for the dishonor of this lotteryā€™s worst performer before unexpectedly erupting for 25 points on Wednesday night. Despite that outburst, the body of work tells a gruesome story.

Advertised as a 3-and-D guy, he has official stats of 31.8 percent shooting while unofficially averaging two ballhandling disasters per evening, contributing to a sky-high turnover rate for a secondary player. Iā€™m sure Reddish can shoot better on 24.7 percent on 3s ā€“ heā€™s at 77 percent from the line, for instance. Iā€™m not totally sure how much better, however. His elbow-out form doesnā€™t inspire oodles of confidence, even in warm-ups. And inside the arc, heā€™s a lost cause who has no clue how to finish or where to send the ball next.

With his size and mobility and a rate of 1.9 steals per 100, Reddish might be able to defend well enough to stay in the league. The Hawks have even used him as a stopper at times. (The Hawks also give up 400 points per game, but still).

Offensively, however, Reddish has been a total disaster. All the red flags from his freshman year at Duke have only shown worse as a pro: His limited handle, rough decision making and peculiar inability to finish combine to make him among the leagueā€™s least effective offensive players.

Finally, itā€™s fitting that we capped off the lottery with a player who hasnā€™t played at all ā€“ Romeo Langford seemed like a reach at the time with the 14th pick and has played just 14 NBA seconds ā€“ not minutes, seconds. Langford has also battled injuries, recently bowing out of the lineup again after a mishap in a G League game, so the jury is still out, but heā€™s another lottery pick off to a very slow start.

Again, itā€™s still early ā€¦ only itā€™s not really THAT early anymore. As always, some of these players will get better as the year goes on, and some will emerge in their second and third seasons. But roughly half the players selected in the lottery will need to show major, major strides just to get a second contract. Thatā€™s a far cry from the group that stormed the league a year ago.

J0rdan S., Friday, 6 December 2019 17:36 (four years ago) link

wldve been cool to have some datas re how rookies usually perform in their first 20 games

lagāˆžn, Friday, 6 December 2019 17:44 (four years ago) link

Spear: I was told that James ran up to Coach Dā€™Antoni and put his hand over his mic ā€“ because Dā€™Antoni was micā€™d ā€“ and told him, ā€œWeā€™ve got to get Chris out of here.ā€

Lowe: Out of the game?

Spears: No.

Lowe: Out of here here?

Spears: Out of here here.

amazing

omar little, Friday, 6 December 2019 17:45 (four years ago) link

james is uniquĆØ

lagāˆžn, Friday, 6 December 2019 17:49 (four years ago) link

its hard cos the two teammates he's run out town were Dwight and CP so I cant totally say this is on him.

de-mamba mentality (Spottie), Friday, 6 December 2019 18:06 (four years ago) link

Harden can be forgiven for thinking he is the true omphalos of the Rockets and the team must be built to his requirements. Besides, CP3 is a deeply irritating jerk who would happily be shunned by all his teammates, if he weren't a future HOF inductee.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 6 December 2019 18:09 (four years ago) link

the hunter/snell comp in the hollinger piece is a little scary

call all destroyer, Friday, 6 December 2019 18:16 (four years ago) link

the hawks rookie duo has def looked pretty concerning... travis schlenk has been very aggressive in the draft but even trae young is gonna end up being a pyrrhic victory. collins is out and heurter hasn't progressed at all... not been a great season for them. if this core doesn't pan out he prob should be fired. i think hunter looks better athletically than snell but they both sort of orbit around the game without really majorly impacting its events... idk if hunter has the right mentality to fully harness his stopper potential.

J0rdan S., Friday, 6 December 2019 18:28 (four years ago) link

since it's the cavs nobody really cares but koby altman should be heavily questioned for taking two inefficient non shooting point guards in back to back drafts... almost kahn esque in its way

J0rdan S., Friday, 6 December 2019 18:30 (four years ago) link

that rookie hollinger piece is good. but still so early to tell. remember how trae young was like the worst player in the league for half of his rookie season.

i still think some outlet needs to do a deep dive on players transitioning from the composite balls they play with from an early age until they get drafted and have to immediately switch to the nba leather ball. wonder if shooting between ncaa and rookies was more consistent prior to the 2002 transition when the NCAA stopped use of the wilson leather ball.

found this: https://www.hothothoops.com/2014/8/22/6058319/miami-heat-rookie-shabazz-napier-still-adjusting-to-nba-basketballs

"The funny thing is, I never really touched an NBA ball until I left school," Napier said. "I told myself I never wanted to. I felt like it was superstitious, like something bad was going to happen, like I had to earn it. I never touched it and it's definitely different. This ball is leather and the biggest thing for me now is getting comfortable with it."

Reynolds also reached out to another Heat rookie, Tyler Johnson to get his input on the "basketball" debacle.

"It is different. Especially coming out of college. A lot of times, if the basketball gets wet, it gets slippery. Here, you get your hands wet to make it stick. It's slippery on its own. It takes a little while to get that feel for it. It is a little bit different but you kind of forget about it after a while."

de-mamba mentality (Spottie), Friday, 6 December 2019 18:36 (four years ago) link

xp fyi huerter started the season with an injury and on a minutes restriction and once the minutes restriction was lifted he got hurt again.

de-mamba mentality (Spottie), Friday, 6 December 2019 18:37 (four years ago) link

gonna wait for more info before making a call on whether the hawks guys are panning out but yeah some of those others are not looking good

ciderpress, Friday, 6 December 2019 18:54 (four years ago) link

https://theathletic.com/1438785/2019/12/06/guys-drowned-out-his-voice-cavaliers-players-unhappy-with-the-college-coaching-style-of-john-beilein/

Itā€™s already gotten to the point where players are looking past Beilein to his lead assistant, J.B. Bickerstaff, for guidance, those sources said.

ā€œGuys drowned out his voice, and when guys start searching for the next in line for help, I believe youā€™ve lost them,ā€ one Cavs player said.

ā€œThe little things become big things, and sometimes very big things,ā€ another player said.

ā€œOur assistants are definitely more prepared for the NBA,ā€ a third said.

de-mamba mentality (Spottie), Friday, 6 December 2019 19:23 (four years ago) link

ilx bowl tonight on espn

ciderpress, Friday, 6 December 2019 19:36 (four years ago) link

Beyond his meticulous focus on rudimentary basketball fundamentals, which NBA players have little patience for in-season, players roll their eyes at things like the terminology Beilein brought to the Cavs.

For instance, all of the teamā€™s screens, cuts, and pivots are named after wild animals. A curl is a ā€œpolar bearā€ in Beileinā€™s system.

call all destroyer, Friday, 6 December 2019 19:41 (four years ago) link

jesus nchrist

ciderpress, Friday, 6 December 2019 19:42 (four years ago) link

lol speaking of hard transitions from college to pro

de-mamba mentality (Spottie), Friday, 6 December 2019 19:43 (four years ago) link

Cavs are gonna get the number one pick again

Matt Armstrong, Friday, 6 December 2019 20:36 (four years ago) link

Fizdale FIRED

de-mamba mentality (Spottie), Friday, 6 December 2019 20:40 (four years ago) link

the knicks should try hiring a coach who they actually want coaching their team

ciderpress, Friday, 6 December 2019 20:42 (four years ago) link

they should try having no coach. the players should just check in and out when they're tired.

10,000 mani-gecs (voodoo chili), Friday, 6 December 2019 20:53 (four years ago) link

they should also call their own fouls.

10,000 mani-gecs (voodoo chili), Friday, 6 December 2019 20:53 (four years ago) link

maybe try a different sport

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 6 December 2019 20:56 (four years ago) link

Would Larry Brown take the job

Matt Armstrong, Friday, 6 December 2019 21:24 (four years ago) link

Not sure why the Knicks allowed David Fizdale to run a practice before firing him.

— Stefan Bondy (@SBondyNYDN) December 6, 2019

call all destroyer, Friday, 6 December 2019 21:29 (four years ago) link

dolan was busy tuning

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 6 December 2019 22:39 (four years ago) link

i didn't even realize beilein was coaching the cavs until i saw that juwan was coaching michigan. strong sign of team incompetence to hire a sixty-something college basketball coach to be a head coach in 2019.

circles, Saturday, 7 December 2019 01:53 (four years ago) link

i didn't hate it tbh, beilein has made a bunch of guys better basketball players. but the guys hiring him had to gauge whether or not he could adapt.

call all destroyer, Saturday, 7 December 2019 01:58 (four years ago) link

Really good game from Jokic here, should have like 6 assists

Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 7 December 2019 02:10 (four years ago) link

haven't seen the nuggets in awhile, what the hell happened to jokic's arm?

Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Saturday, 7 December 2019 02:23 (four years ago) link

Heā€™s always scratched and bruised

Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 7 December 2019 02:40 (four years ago) link

if i was a contender looking to upgrade my team i'd see what the wizards wanted for bertans, his shooting is insane

J0rdan S., Saturday, 7 December 2019 02:41 (four years ago) link

Really good game from Jokic here, should have like 6 assists

ā€• Matt Armstrong, Friday, December 6, 2019 9:10 PM (forty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

should have told the other nuggets to also have good games

call all destroyer, Saturday, 7 December 2019 02:54 (four years ago) link

Yeah pretty annoying

Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 7 December 2019 02:55 (four years ago) link

Dubs eke out a win!

DJI, Saturday, 7 December 2019 03:16 (four years ago) link

just tooned in celtics playing some defense or what

lagāˆžn, Saturday, 7 December 2019 03:17 (four years ago) link

kemba hit a sick 3

lagāˆžn, Saturday, 7 December 2019 03:18 (four years ago) link

just tooned in celtics playing some defense or what

ā€• lagāˆžn, Friday, December 6, 2019 10:17 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

nuggets were unusually bad from 3 but i think they defended murray/harris/everyone not named nikola really well

call all destroyer, Saturday, 7 December 2019 03:21 (four years ago) link

Dubs go 1-2 for the vaunted hawks, hornets and bulls road trip lol

de-mamba mentality (Spottie), Saturday, 7 December 2019 03:21 (four years ago) link

lol grant williams 0-24 from 3 in his nba career

lagāˆžn, Saturday, 7 December 2019 03:22 (four years ago) link

that looks bad what is the pct on that

peloton for the painfully alone (m bison), Saturday, 7 December 2019 03:23 (four years ago) link


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