The Associates: Have the years been kind?

So there's a reissue of Perhaps due late January on Cherry Red -- an expansion of what ended up as that somewhat barebones two-fer CD release with The Glamour Chase, but this time strictly Perhaps-era material itself. Nothing unreleased, but pretty much every last variant and B-side and the like finally in one place:

--

Disc One: Perhaps + Bonus Tracks
1. Those First Impressions
2. Waiting For The Loveboat
3. Perhaps (Dave Allen Remix)
4. Schampout
5. Helicopter Helicopter
6. Breakfast
7. Thirteen Feelings
8. The Stranger In Your Voice
9. The Best Of You
(Billy Mackenzie & Dave Allan Remix)
10. Don’t Give Me That I Told You So Look
11. Perhaps (Instrumental) (Bonus Track) *
12. Breakfast Alone (Instrumental) (Bonus Track) *
13. Thirteen Feelings (Instrumental) (Bonus Track) *
14. The Stranger In Your Voice (Instrumental) (Bonus Track) *

Disc Two: Bonus Tracks
1. Those First Impressions (Extended Version) *
2. Waiting For The Loveboat (Single Version)
3. Waiting For The Loveboat (Extended Version) *
4. Waiting For The Loveboat (Slight Return)
5. Perhaps Perhaps *
6. Schampout (Edit) *
7. Breakfast (Single Version)
8. Breakfast (Edit)
9. Kites
10. Take Me To The Girl (Single Version)
11. Take Me To The Girl (12” Mix) *
12. Take Me To The Girl (Instrumental) *
13. The Girl That Took Me *

(Asterisk means first time on CD.)

What's missing if we're talking this time frame is the Ronnie Scott gig, which at least is readily floating around on YouTube etc., but it would be nice to finally get a formal release of that (audio and video of course).

So anyway, here's my review of said reissue:

https://thequietus.com/articles/27807-associates-perhaps-review-reissue

Great review, Ned.

I picked up the new reissue and one of the things that struck me was how long the core album is - nearly an hour for ten songs! Previously only had it on vinyl and hadn’t realised.

It’s a good record, but sometimes I think the story of ‘Perhaps’ is maybe the most interesting thing about it.

Yeah, agreed; there's tracks I'll always love but the backstory really says it all. If the album were more famous I think the making of it would be more known, but it's almost like Billy was just not-quite-famous enough for that backstory to truly get attention; at least we have the Doyle book and these liner notes. I've got a slew of tracks from the sessions floating around, including the original take on "The Best of You" with Gina X, which is miles better than Eddi Reader's.

I read about the seemingly farcical Perhaps in The Glamour Chase book about 15 years before hearing the album, full expecting it to be something of a car crash yet it is hands down the album I love the most

I'd have to agree, Paul. Read 'The Glamour Chase' around the time of that 'Perhaps/Glamour Chase' double but never bought it (skint student), assumed both would be very patchy. Only finally heard 'Perhaps' a few years ago and was surprised that it actually holds together pretty well. Reading the story of its fractured and protracted creation before hearing it maybe puts a bit too much baggage on it.

On the other hand I remember The Glamour Chase (album) as being a horribly dated and bland Curiosity Killed The Cat/Brother Beyond-esque affair. Might have to reinvestigate to see if that was a harsh analysis

I've always felt the Perhaps songs found on "The Radio One Sessions" (Helicopter Helicopter, Theme From Perhaps, Perhaps (Schizophrenic Version), Don't Give Me That I Told You So Look, Breakfast, Take Me To The Girl) are the best versions.

Yeah I think there's a good album in the Perhaps material, I just don't think Perhaps itself is that album. Also if Billy had just gone solo in name earlier I think it would stand out a little more in immediate comparison to Sulk, but I understand why he held onto it for a long while.

As for the version of Glamour Chase that eventually surfaced, it does have an advantage by adding on the Yello collaboration "Snowball" as well as "Take Me To the Girl" and "Heaven's Blue," none of which were on the original promo tape that circulated, but yeah a good chunk of it just doesn't work -- and to a degree that afflicts Wild and Lonely as well. It's just kinda weird to me to a degree because all the work with Yello pretty readily showed *how* he could have taken a pop-friendly version of their work as a throughline during the late 80s (especially since they all had a hit as songwriters with "The Rhythm Divine" for Shirley Bassey), and the album still also has "Country Boy," which is easily one of his most inspired collaborations and is truly strange and unique, yet still recorded some dreck. Maybe he just figured it would keep WEA happy.

Helicopter Helicopter and Schampout are the songs I'd happily lose on Perhaps. I still love the album despite those flaws. When I first got the album, I was obsessed with the second half and would often just play that side of my vinyl copy. I'm still in awe of that ridiculous string arrangement on The Stranger In Your Voice and Breakfast should have been a number one single.

I mostly agree on the assessment of The Glamour Chase. Despite Billy obviously playing it safe on those last few Associates albums, I love that he still did things like Country Boy. As you say Ned, it's a truly bizarre choice that seems like a rare flash of inspiration from Billy at that point. Empires Of Your Heart is the standout on there. I still think it's one of Billy's most stunning moments.

Funnily enough, I just played Outernational the other day probably for the first time in 10 years. I was surprised how much I enjoyed it. Definitely a step up from Wild & Lonely -- an album I try not to think about too much. Baby should have been a hit.

If Adele recorded Baby it would probably end up being her biggest and most inescapable hit

Sharing a tweet of mine to share a screenshot:

Learned today that Cherry Red's getting out a reissue/recompilation of Billy Mackenzie's later solo material in the offing. Works for me! pic.twitter.com/HzOS9bE1lF

— Ned Raggett (@NedRaggett) December 29, 2021

Awesome, I’ve wanted to hear those in full for a while.

And here's the preorder link for it

https://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/billy-mackenzie-satellite-life-satellite-life-recordings-1995-1996-3cd

Woah, that looks fantastic! I've wanted to hear McArthur’s Son ever since I read The Glamour Chase 20 plus years ago. He makes it sound great.

sund4r being very extremely wrong abt the associates has an upside: i have been listening to them all day

my theory which is mine: they slid a little out of institutional memory bcz they didn't generate much good writing (morley's is mostly the fizz of his high enthusiasm and plus no great music writer is patchier anyway lol) and they didn't generate much good writing bcz they're very hard to write about -- and *that's a mark of how good they are*

i don't think musicality is ineffable but i do think it's highly evasive and that we often write abt anything but (even when it looks like we're doing striahgt-up musicology) and musicians that slip this leash are worth paying attention to precisely bcz of the challenge they present

thread that garnered few non-baffled responses lol:
Can a music matter if its fans don't especially want to read about it?

i'll have a drink and then not phone my brother up

bap de la bap!

The first two records are a good example of how baffling experiencing them in real time must have been. Can’t think of a stylistic evolution quite like going from The Affectionate Punch to the Fourth Drawer Down singles to Sulk in only two years. And they are all magnificent!

I love Perhaps but McKenzie and Rankine were a real team.

Paperhouse haunts me, such a beautiful tune. Love Billy’s scat breakdown at the end, lest it get too majestic.

sund4r being very extremely wrong abt the associates has an upside: i have been listening to them all day

Excellent approach. And yeah, very hard to write about. I've done my best over time but it's hard to approach the ineffable, really.

"my theory which is mine: they slid a little out of institutional memory bcz they didn't generate much good writing (morley's is mostly the fizz of his high enthusiasm and plus no great music writer is patchier anyway lol) and they didn't generate much good writing bcz they're very hard to write about -- and *that's a mark of how good they are*"

The second part is a very good point. I grew up listening to a lot of music that simply wasn't written about, because what was there to say about it? How could the typical NME / Melody Maker writer cover Lifeforms or 76:14? What would they say? "It sounds good and I like the noises". A bit of Googling suggests that Melody Maker really liked 76:13, but my hunch is that whatever coverage it had was dwarfed, utterly dwarfed - that's not offensive, by the way - dwarfed by the same newspaper's coverage of Martin Rossiter, because he was good for a quote and his lyrics could be unpicked. He worked on the page.

But I disagree with the first point, because I don't think pop music writing really translates into a legacy. Viz Martin Rossiter, who isn't written about nowadays. There has to be at least a couple of crowd-pleasing hits. Bands develop a legacy because their music catches the ear of people on the radio and before long "Weather With You" and "Somewhere in My Heart" are radio staples, because they're crowd-pleasing hits. Or alternatively they develop a following on YouTube.

The Associates' problem is that they had a particular style. Their songs have a swoopy, almost jazzy feel. They don't have punchy, simple melodies, they feel tailored for McKenzie's voice, so they swoop. That's the best word I can think of. Their singles (I'm not familiar with the albums) have swoopy, meandering melodies, which is great because it's unexpected but doesn't lend itself to penetrating people's skulls.

Alan Rankine did a really good C86 show interview a few months back

Can I point out here that the Associates did actually have hit singles. And "Sulk" was a Top 10 album.

Despite everything that's ever been written, Perhaps is a blindingly good album

I started listening to The Associates because of sreynolds' Rip It Up and Start Again, but I don't remember what he wrote there that made them sound so compelling.

Lol, glad to inspire a revive. Tbf I only heard one song once in the context of a thread about a different band.

Go & Listen to the first 3 lps . Especially the 2nd 2 I think.
Sulk is so great, 4th Drawer Down hangs together pretty well for a compilation of singles tracks.
& the first one is pretty fantastic too. Just difficult to rival Sulk cos that is something else.
& everything got expanded a couple of years ago.

But there are Van der Graaf records.

I always flick between Sulk and Fourth Drawer Down as favourite. And seemingly so does everyone I know.

I prefer the first album but, then, you don't know me.

arent you tom d of ilx?

That's just a nasty rumour.

First album is amazing, it arouses emotions in me that I didn’t know I had.

Associates are not so far from a glam/post-punk Peter Hammill/VDGG - complex melodies, dramatic vocals, harsh textures, creating a "sound-world" as much as a band performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Hccc3xqeA

What I said in another thread about Killing Joke combining sardonic attitude with hysteria applies to this band too, with an extra dash of camp.

I think my favorite moment of theirs may be the close to Skipping where Rankine is playing that glacial roller rink synthesizer line and Billy just starts belting out “SKIP SKIP/SKIP SKIP SKIP /SKIP SKIP/SKIP SKIP SKIP /SKIPPING!?!?” It literally gives me chills.

The four chords they repeat at the end of the song are like a stairway rising up into nowhere.

Cleaning house to The Affectionate Punch🧼🕺

cleaning Paper House?

Don't forget to clean the mattress downstairs full of brown peppered holes.

Cleaning house to _The Affectionate Punch_🧼🕺

wrong album obv, and also just an affectionate punch

Don't forget to tidy up the fourth drawer down.

Amused as always by y'all ❤️

After all the cleaning, you'll be sweaty and dirty so you'll have a shower...