From a quick read in Wikipedia, it appears to be more of a question of how the doctrine of free will affects a person's ability to accept or reject grace and hinges upon the intricacies of how god's omnipotence and omniscience would work in a system where god is trying to bestow grace, knowing ahead of time it will be rejected. It is the usual tying oneself in knots to overcome inherent flaws in the logic of church dogma and doctrine.
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 2 December 2019 23:57 (four years ago) link
and determinism
― deems of internment (darraghmac), Tuesday, 3 December 2019 00:00 (four years ago) link
kind of thing which i find too boring to get into too much - no disrespect to theology in general but this particular dispute has me yawning. seems like both sides kind of viewed causation as a zero sum game. the more god does the less the individual does and vice cersa. bañez and the dominicans believed in physical premotion, the influence of god on the will of the person who acts on that will, jesuits found this overly deterministic, though they did believe in god knowing everything that could happen including counterfactuals, and creating the world as it is while knowing all the options so that always seemed kind of deterministic to me also
― #FBPIRA (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 3 December 2019 00:02 (four years ago) link
determinism vs free will obviously a very old question and lots of great apologetics out there reconciling omniscience and free will etc but this seems to be specifically be about the efficaciousness of grace specifically, and aiui specifically as relates to its conveyance automatically iow without the actual participation of the sinner but maybe w/ some level of his participation acc to jesuits? this is precisely the point i am trying to understand.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 3 December 2019 00:05 (four years ago) link
a quick google tells me this is "one of theologies most exciting debates"
― #FBPIRA (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 3 December 2019 00:47 (four years ago) link
theology's. fuck.
i feel like this is something that you can't just make a pithy summation of that will explain too much. although if it were i would not be in such a position to do so
― #FBPIRA (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 3 December 2019 00:48 (four years ago) link
especially because earlier debates in the church precede and inform it (the dominicans are augustinian thomists)
― #FBPIRA (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 3 December 2019 00:49 (four years ago) link
i thought augustinianism and thomism were different?
― treeship., Tuesday, 3 December 2019 02:33 (four years ago) link
where are some underrated aerosmith bootlegs to enlighten me
― Mordy, Tuesday, 3 December 2019 02:48 (four years ago) link
Xp.Yeah they are. Thomas Aquinas both draws from and disagrees with Augustine, I guess I should've said that Dominican theological position on grace and predestination draws from aquinas and thomas
― #FBPIRA (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 3 December 2019 02:50 (four years ago) link
i mean, no catholic believes in predestination
― treeship., Tuesday, 3 December 2019 02:56 (four years ago) link
right?
― treeship., Tuesday, 3 December 2019 02:58 (four years ago) link
Well the Jansenists did and they claimed to just be disciples of Augustine
― #FBPIRA (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 3 December 2019 03:02 (four years ago) link
no catholic believes in predestination...right?
After you've been catechized, the church cares little about the private little heresies of its communicants, so long as they don't make a big issue out of them. If you are a priest or some other official of the church it's trickier, and you'd better be able to couch your determinism in the kind of theologically acceptable obscurantist terminology that won't get you in trouble with the church hierarchy.
― A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 3 December 2019 04:20 (four years ago) link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell
― Lidsville U.K. (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 15 December 2019 18:02 (four years ago) link
^Because I was wondering went on during those three days.
― Lidsville U.K. (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 15 December 2019 18:24 (four years ago) link
metal as fuck
― WHEEL! OF! FORESKIN! (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 15 December 2019 18:27 (four years ago) link
Martin Luther: [looks directly at the camera, Office-style] https://t.co/s9EFy1IZPe— Adam Kotsko (@adamkotsko) March 22, 2020
― j., Sunday, 22 March 2020 01:19 (four years ago) link
capitalism: this fuckin thing has exposed most of our activities as painfully blatant scams
catholicism: hold my bier
― thou shalt not covid thy neighbour's wife (darraghmac), Sunday, 22 March 2020 01:50 (four years ago) link
lol x 2
― budo jeru, Sunday, 22 March 2020 04:34 (four years ago) link
What a worldhttps://www.aod.org/sacramentsupdate
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Sunday, 23 August 2020 15:11 (three years ago) link
peter at the pearly gates: i'm sorry, we can't let you in. looks like there was some sort of administrative error down there on earth. it's gonna take a while to clean up. don't worry, there's a waiting room *nods toward purgatory*
― The GOAT Harold Land (Karl Malone), Sunday, 23 August 2020 15:25 (three years ago) link
“Look it’s not a big deal, minor administrative snafu, well get it figured out, but in the meantime don’t die because of you do youre going to hell”
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Sunday, 23 August 2020 17:26 (three years ago) link
so...if the priest wasn't technically baptized all that time, does that mean that the people he baptized are also at risk of eternal hell due to administrative error?
― The GOAT Harold Land (Karl Malone), Sunday, 23 August 2020 17:31 (three years ago) link
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Sunday, 23 August 2020 18:20 (three years ago) link
The church (shrugs): Hey, God makes the rules, we don't.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Sunday, 23 August 2020 18:40 (three years ago) link
administrative assistant to god: god dammit, we've got another memo from earth. it's another policy clarification request.god: let me guess, fucking b-admin assistant to god: baptism, yep, it's baptism again. god: it's whatever they want. it's whatever they want. we've told them this. i don't care. this is the least important planet on my plate. this planet shouldn't even BE on my plate
― The GOAT Harold Land (Karl Malone), Sunday, 23 August 2020 19:43 (three years ago) link
okay I have a dumb question:
When you put ash on your forehead for Ash Wednesday... where does the ash come from? Is it special, sanctified ash, or just some regular old ash from the bottom of the BBQ?
thanks in advance from an ignorant protestant
― Andy the Grasshopper, Friday, 24 February 2023 20:39 (one year ago) link
Who even knows where the hosts come from? probably some warehouse in Skipton!
― calzino, Friday, 24 February 2023 20:42 (one year ago) link
They are supposedly from the previous Palm Sunday’s palm leaves? I never knew this though tbh I never paid attention in either Mass or religion class.
― giant bat fucker (gyac), Friday, 24 February 2023 20:43 (one year ago) link
so does a priest have to daub the ash on your forehead? Or is it DIY
― Andy the Grasshopper, Friday, 24 February 2023 20:45 (one year ago) link
At primary school I was told it was previous years Palm Sunday's Palms.
― Toshirō Nofune (The Seventh ILXorai), Friday, 24 February 2023 20:45 (one year ago) link
Priestxp to me
At school the teachers used to give us a row if anybody wiped them off our foreheads.
― Toshirō Nofune (The Seventh ILXorai), Friday, 24 February 2023 20:46 (one year ago) link
― giant bat fucker (gyac), Friday, 24 February 2023 20:47 (one year ago) link
My mum as a lifetime on/off lapsed catholic buys wafers as a substitute because she fell in love with communion hosts at an early age ... I'm not making this up! Had no idea they were widely available online. At least now I have a good birthday pressie option for her.
― calzino, Friday, 24 February 2023 20:53 (one year ago) link
in my presbyterian youth, we used sourdough bread (very NorCal) and welch's grape juice.. everybody got their own shot glass, we didn't share a cup
― Andy the Grasshopper, Friday, 24 February 2023 20:57 (one year ago) link
also there was no transfiguration or whatever you call it, the bread was just bread and not the actual flesh of christ
― Andy the Grasshopper, Friday, 24 February 2023 20:58 (one year ago) link
i don't understand the catholic sense of forgiveness. some of the most of unforgiving ppl i know are catholics. is this just my limited experience or is the concept somehow perverted as a type of punishment?
― Comfortably numbnuts (Heez), Thursday, 4 April 2024 14:19 (two weeks ago) link
I forgive you.
― poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 4 April 2024 14:22 (two weeks ago) link
catholics do love history -- the old churches, holy relics, that thing you did
― 145 feet up in a Jeffrey Pine (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 4 April 2024 14:24 (two weeks ago) link
Bless, alfred
― Comfortably numbnuts (Heez), Thursday, 4 April 2024 14:24 (two weeks ago) link
Lol sufjan
― Comfortably numbnuts (Heez), Thursday, 4 April 2024 14:25 (two weeks ago) link
guilt and forgiveness are the pendulum that swings butts into seats on Sunday. there's a sacrament requiring the CEO's signature on forgiveness with middle management present.
― 145 feet up in a Jeffrey Pine (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 4 April 2024 14:27 (two weeks ago) link
The simple answer: it's easier to condemn than to accept. The latter puts you in a position of weakness.
― poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 4 April 2024 14:27 (two weeks ago) link
Seems like a lot weight to carry but you know
― Comfortably numbnuts (Heez), Thursday, 4 April 2024 14:28 (two weeks ago) link
Jesus carried his own cross, man -- it's the least we can do.
― poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 4 April 2024 14:30 (two weeks ago) link
a new priest has Young Pope'd my home town's church. women wear veils. men wear suits. One (drunk) lady started speaking in tongues in a webcast mass. Turned it into his fascist terrarium. most people left, but a new crowd showed up. there's a spectrum of "catholics", so it can be important to know which we're talking about.
― 145 feet up in a Jeffrey Pine (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 4 April 2024 14:42 (two weeks ago) link
Most Catholics in my acquaintance only speak in tongues when I offer them Negronis.
― poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 4 April 2024 14:48 (two weeks ago) link
mel gibsons and negroni fiends
― 145 feet up in a Jeffrey Pine (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 4 April 2024 15:04 (two weeks ago) link