HIS DARK MATERIALS

Good episode last night, maybe the one I've enjoyed most yet. or felt most emotionally affected by - found the scenes with ghost Billy really powerful. Plus Will Parry! Properly introduced, with dialogue and everything. But no knife yet.

i like ruth wilson as mrs coulter: she's very good at inhabiting the border between drop-dead charming kick-ass and bad damaged/insane (she is amazing at all this in luther when she first appears, even if they had no idea where to take her in later series, so the casting is almost lazy -- but it's fun also, so hurrah)

i agree that lyra really needed more dido twite (or little my) in her from the outset -- more chaotic glee -- but i like dafne keen's reading all the same: a key point of the character is that she's right at the borderland between child and adult, and she inhabits this very well.

the look of this show is tremendous: sets and costumes, lots of thought put in there -- but the real weakness (and i think it's also the reason lyra doesn't read very clearly very quickly) is that they don't put much work into the dynamics and feel social groups, once the costumes are sorted. the gyptains, the magisterium, the incision scientists, the witches, and so on: as groups they're all a bit flat. each group needs more of a charged stereotype to work with and against -- the way they talk, move, they way they fit together, their energy as an ensemble. the gyptians are probably the least interesting: i can understand why the direction's held back from stereotyping, it's not as if this been a help for travellers and roma socially lo these tens of centuries, but drama isn't improved by tiptoeing, and i don't believe there's no way out from under this conundrum

Ep 7 kind of bleh

Listening to the audiobook of La Belle Sauvage, and its really fucking well done.

I should check it out. I'm not a big audiobook fan, but they did an amazing job with the Dark Materials series. All the voice actors were perfect, and contrasted nicely with Pullman's mellow narration.

I liked episode 7. My mate was playing the crazy dude in the prison with Lyra. He done good. I think they've done a great job with the bears.

I'm not sure they've handled the mixing of worlds very well. Episode 7 and we're none the wiser as to how the worlds are aligned, which seems negligent.

Episode 8 smashed it. Really looking forward to s2 now.

will’s earth has been terribly pointlessly strung out. i thought it be dramatically acceptable but now i’m convinced they should have followed the books.

Yes, I agree. Or they at least should have waited until, say, the penultimate episode to introduce that storyline.

I don't know that there's a good solution to the Will problem, because wherever you put his storyline, it's always going to be terribly boring. I thought it was smart to get all the introductory stuff over early and have him and Lyra walking into the Cittagazze world at the same time, but I agree it got distracting to be constantly cutting back to Will's world where absolutely nothing of interest is happening.

Thought the real weak point of this series was Serafina Pekkala. Every scene she was in was astonishingly terrible. I started cringing in embarrassment every time she teleported in.

no i think they made the wrong decision. in the second book PP gets him to cittagazze v quickly. it takes ten episodes in the tv series.

Yeah but this way the next season doesn't have to start with this boring storyline about a kid who's not Lyra. And it probably lessens resentment toward Will if we know him from the beginning. Agree they spent too much time on it though.

Could easily be a single episode at the start of season 2. I'm kind of bummed they did it like this, his introduction in book 2 is one of my favorite parts of the series.

agreed on serafina btw. and also on mark’s point about communities. the gyptians are dull af.

Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note that this show's 2019 season is nominated in the 2019 ILX TV poll:

ILX's Best Television of 2019 Poll / VOTING AND CAMPAIGNING THREAD / Voting Ends January 31

If you like this show and you'd like to see it have a good showing in the poll (running in February) all you need to do is submit a ballot including it and your other favorites (4 minimum, 25 maximum, organized by your favorite to least favorite) to forksclovetofu at gmail by end of day today. It'll take five minutes; get to it!

I'm about four fifths of the way through La Belle Sauvage and it's FINALLY getting kind of interesting. What an annoyingly structured novel - this interminable, often dull build up, then after the big event eventually happens everything feels rushed and underwritten. Might be a Rowling-esque case of a writer getting too big for an editor to reign in.

I have heard that the second one is better.

The second one is a lot more adventuresome and less stately, if that’s your preference, but I enjoyed both. I sort of agree about the lack of editing, but they’re both a breeze to read, and better written (clearly) than Rowling, so I found their maximalism luxurious rather than tiring, even though Secret Commonwealth gets a little generic in places.

That said, I don’t think he’s written a better book in the series than the very first one, Northern Lights. But the last two were both (for me) more fun than Subtle Knife and Amber Spyglass (which might be the worst book in the series imo)

And Secret Commonwealth’s buildup is even longer iirc!

but they’re both a breeze to read

See I found the first two thirds of Belle Sauvage a bit of a slog!

I agree Northern Lights remains his peak. So richly atmospheric, and just a great story.

In that case I’m definitely interested in hearing what you think of Secret Commonwealth! It does share (consciously, I think) the “on a journey” aspect of Northern Lights. There’s more old-fashioned suspense than the books inbetween.

(but you might find it a colossal bore, too)

I don’t think he’s written a better book in the series than the very first one, Northern Lights. But the last two were both (for me) more fun than Subtle Knife and Amber Spyglass (which might be the worst book in the series imo)

I agree with this. So far the new series hasn't reached the heights of The Golden Compass/Northern Lights for me, but I do find it much more consistent.

The plot structure of La Belle Sauvage made me wonder if maybe Pullman had been watching Night of the Hunter.

Oh yes, good shout!

I imagine I'll be reading the Secret Commonwealth eventually.

Secret Commonwealth is my favorite of *all* his books.

i'm liking the pre/se-quel trilogy a lot, especially how it's exploring lyra's world. he did such a great job building the world in northern lights, and while i'm glad pullman decided to set off into the multiverse, i'm glad that the new trilogy is taking the time to marinate in the society and the mystery of the world.

really loved the *spoiler* papal assassination scene *spoiler* in the secret commonwealth, the way it wove in the sly, character-based humor to undercut the horrific action.

I don’t remember much about it, to be honest - there’s a surgery sequence that’s pretty existing and twisty iirc

One not-very-serious flaw - there’s a lot of stuff about how unusual it is for daemons and humans to split - then it seems like everyone’s doing it

that feels less like an inconsistency in the storytelling than the scales dropping from lyra's eyes–another "taboo" that her authoritarian theocratic society wants to pretend doesn't exist.

A taboo and a minority group - the kind that's treated as invisible but becomes a lot more visible if you happen to be part of it.

right, and that's a metaphor that pullman makes clear when lyra meets the refugee girl who lost her daemon.

Ah that makes sense

I just finished season 1 of the HBO adaptation. The first bunch of episodes were a bit dispiriting, with so many corny moments. I understand wanting to show various side plots instead of focusing in Lyra, but I would've preferred sticking with the book's structure. Lin-Manual Miranda was a particularly bad call. I was also not excited about starting the Will plot in S1, but it ended up making sense overall. The show was really redeemed in the last few episodes, which went much darker, and the finale ended on a pleasingly ambiguous note.

im cautiously optimistic for season 2, despite a trailer that seemed to be deliberately obfuscatory

love ruth wilson so much

(s2e1 dropped)

She does sadistic almost *too* well.

finally got round to s2e2

Not feeling this season yet. Both kids’ acting was pretty poor throughout.

Forgive the thread spam, but I wanted to note that this show's 2020 season is nominated in the 2020 ILX TV poll:

ILX's Best Television of 2020 Poll / VOTING AND CAMPAIGNING THREAD / Voting Ends After January 29, 2021

If you like this show and you'd like to see it have a good showing in the poll (running in February) all you need to do is submit a ballot including it and your other favorites (3 minimum, 25 maximum, ranked by your favorite to least favorite) to forksclovetofu at gmail. It'll take five minutes; get to it!

finished season 2 the other day! i thought it was a big improvement on season 1 (especially in the daemon department, aka the most important department) while still feeling like it's missing something essential and ineffable that the books had. it seems like they're neutering the "killing god" aspect of the books, which might make season 3 very weird, and they've totally messed up scoresby and the witches. but they've got the will/lyra relationship down, and ruth wilson is transfixing even as she's completely different from my conception of the character from the books lol

Lin-Manual Miranda is terrible in this!

horrifically miscast, it’s true

Season 3 is 2 episodes in - one of the Belgian reviewers called this whole series "probably the best fantasy series ever"

I will probably watch the last season, but I found season 2 to be a bit dull

waiting with bated breath for the final book of dust book lol, but i will def check out this season. i have absolutely no idea how they're gonna manage to adapt this final book, but i am intrigued to see how they fail

it's years since i read these and i remember book three as hurried -- this version has a measured pace to it that is maybe righting that?

just got a massive goosebumps moment so that's a 👍🏽

sadly it involved lin-manuel miranda 👎🏽

Didn’t watch the first season past a couple episodes as it seemed to be sticking to the original book so closely, and because I wasn’t enjoying McAvoy and the Lyra actress

Super curious to see this season though - thought the third book was disappointing but I’m interested to see how they do the final battle and God and the wheely creatures and whatnot

I enjoyed in the 3rd book how the literal actual death of god was like a passing thing buried in the middle of a paragraph and you might have missed it.

It was the same in the show I now realise. There was this very brief scene with a large crystal cube that has a person/angel curled up in it that they disintegrated. I didnt understand what it was but I do now.