ILX Parenting 6: "Put Some Goddamn Pants On Before You Go Outside!" is a thing I say now

I am in Jerusalem and wow are there a lot of little kids here

My kid lost a tooth the night before Xmas. We told her that she could write a letter to the tooth fairy after Xmas, so that Santa didnt run into her. I have no idea if she still believes or not, but if not she's holding her cards close to her chest. I put the tooth inside a ziploc bag and then shoved that into a coffee cup, because I'm some kind of idiot.

So Xmas comes and goes and last night I'm sitting around watching TV and suddenly remember the tooth! We had cleaned house three times in the last three days and the cup was no longer where I left it. I was watching the kiddo because my wife was at work, so I told her I had to go outside and look for something I accidentally threw away in the trash. "What is it?" she asked. I said I'd tell her if I found it.

With a flashlight in one hand, I dug through 2 bags of trash, including old meat, cat food, and snotty Kleenex. I found three empty Ziplocs, which led me to worry that the bag opened at some point and dislodged its contents to be mixed in with all the worst granular detritus. There was one bag left but I had been out in the driveway long enough so I rebagged all the trash and went back inside.

As soon as the sun came up this morning, and as my wife and kid slept, I went back outside. The plan was to tackle the third bag and then recheck the first two bags in the sunlight. I got almost all the way though the third bag. All that was left was a big pile of cat litter. I almost gave up hope but decided to give the litter a sift (with my gloved hand). I pulled up a ziploc bag! Looking closer, it contained my daughter's tooth! And it had remained sealed despite all it had been though.

Brought it inside, removed it from the ziploc, gave it a quick wash under the tap just in case, and placed it in a new ziploc which I tacked to the bulletin board. Pretty sure I'm not going to tell either of them about it so I'm just documenting it here.

the last time i played tooth fairy i forgot to do it, so tried to make the switch in the morning, my son woke up while my hand was under the pillow. he gave me a look of disgust, closed his eyes and mumbled "dad you're trash"

Lol

Also, amazing saga, peace!

lol tracer

the 9-year-old is complaining a lot about having to go to school, about how they have to spend their whole lives at school and how it's going to take up years of their life, and it's frustrating because it does suck and there's nothing we can really do about it. they're at school from 7:30 to 5:30ish every day, but my wife and i have jobs and can't pick them up at 3 like some of their friends. it's not bullying issues or anything like that, it's just boredom and frustration and stress, to the point where we have to force them out of the house in tears most mornings. i know there isn't a solution but just needed to vent.

That's rough. Being two working parents who are away from your kids for a long day is hard and there's no easy answer. As far as school though, have you talked to the 9-year-old about the source of the boredom? Are there particular subjects they like/don't like? Is it something you can talk to the teacher about? When we found out my daughter was bored with reading, for example, we were able to get the teacher to test her reading level and move her up. That may not be the answer in your case, it may more just be a feeling of being trapped in school, but throwing it out there.

The only other thing I can say is do your best to block out real focused time with them when you are home -- this can go a long way.

Ugh. We are getting this too from our 9-year-old though not as bad, and when she comes home from school she seems fine with her day, it's just hard in the morning. She doesn't really have friends in her classroom this year, she didn't complain like this in previous years when she did have some of her friends in her room, it sounds kind of heartless I guess but my attitude is a little bit "let's just wait it out and see if this is a one-year problem" -- NA has it been consistent for you over the years or is this new?

(Nonparent) I liked or loved school for most of my time going to school (at least in my memory) and never had trouble doing well at it and now several years removed from school I am pretty sure that school sucks and it’s ridiculous that we send children there. Don’t know what to do about it either.

it's new this year. i think a lot of it is their closest friends don't go to after-school so they want to be able to be at home where they can talk with them on the ipad. these friends i think are probably bad-mouthing school so they're influencing the opinion too. but i've noticed that even though my kid complains about school, they also get stressed about grades and teacher perception, so i think there's also anxiety about the increase in tests, homework, etc. which has gone up significantly in fourth grade.

My older started getting annoyed about afterschool at about the same age so I did let him come home and be home by himself in the afternoon, is that an option for yours? (I get that it totally depends on transportation and stuff, our school is close enough to our house to walk) I mean that doesn't affect the actual "school itself sucks" piece but maybe they would have a less "it sucks" opinion of school if the after-school issue were different?

(My daughter on the other hand also doesn't really dig afterschool but is not into the idea of being at home by herself so she tolerates it, she basically just hangs out there and reads like she'd do at home except we pay for it)

i researched that but illinois state law says kids can't be home alone until they're 14. one of only three states with a law about that, and by far the oldest minimum age.

My oldest will be 9 next school year (along with her little sister) so this makes me kinda sad. I wish my job allowed for more working from home.

i have some flexibility to wfh but not as often as they would like

i researched that but illinois state law says kids can't be home alone until they're 14.

are you freaking kidding me, i thought that kind of thing was a myth perpetrated by right-wing "kids these days are too pampered" commentators

yeah that's nuts

It looks like the existing law was passed based on a couple who went on vacation to Mexico for 9 days and left their kids alone, and refers to leaving kids alone for "an unreasonable amount of time." A bill going through the IL Legislature now

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=108&GA=101&DocTypeId=HB&DocNum=2334&GAID=15&LegID=118253&SpecSess=&Session=

clarifies the language, e.g.

Neglect does not include permitting a child, whose basic needs are met and who is of sufficient age and maturity to avoid harm or unreasonable risk of harm, to engage in independent activities, including:
(a) traveling to and from school, including by walking,
running, or bicycling; (b) traveling to and from nearby commercial or recreational activities; (c) engaging in outdoor play;
(d) remaining in a vehicle unattended, except as
otherwise provided by law;
(e) remaining at home unattended; or
(f) engaging in a similar independent activity.

But I don't think it was ever meant to say your 9-year-old couldn't be home after school for the afternoon!

Are parents actually getting cited for this??

my suspicion is that it's applied selectively (racistly)

but you're right, there's more leeway in the language than i realized

school sucks and it’s ridiculous that we send children there

It's the worst option except for every other option, speaking very generally. (Your kid may vary. They all do.)

School is a really cruddy simulation of the larger society, but it is at least a society of a sort. You have to deal with stuff you don't want to do (like life) and you have to interact with people who are not like you (like life). Lots of them suck (as they do in life). But if you don't learn some strategies for interacting with them (as you will have to in life), then you will suffer and/or be a terrible person.

Whenever the "school sucks, don't send kids there" attitude comes up - and I sympathize with that view to a large extent! - I think about some of the uses and misuses that might crop up, and I am suddenly not sure I want to go there 100% anymore.

Like "public school makes you go there and relate to people a different color from you" or "public school might put you close to retards and disableds and such". I think those are actually good things about school - it at least makes a feeble attempt at assimilating, which unschoolers and home-schoolers and private-schoolers may never get.

Also "school makes you do a stupid thing that a stupid person has asked you to do, and yet you still have to do it." That's like 87% of what most of us call "work." Where are you going to get a lesson in how to adapt to that? Right now the answer is "school, pretty much."

So yeah I didn't love school, and I yeah I don't love that my kids have to go there ("or else"). But it does supply some lessons that - if they don't get them from school - it's unclear where those particular lessons are going to come from.

Church is the other place that does, or did many of those things

YMP otm

school isn't about learning facts or math or whatever, it's about learning how to function in a society. and there is no escaping from society.

Yeah also I hesitate to play this card all the fuckin time but I do have an intellectually disabled child. If he weren't getting daytime care, intellectual stimulation, field trips, meals, education, speech therapy, physical therapy, occupational therapy, art, music, sports, exposure to other kids his own age, and exposure to other special-needs kids, etc. from school, what then?

My wife and I would be obliged to provide every. single. one. of those things ourselves, in our copious spare time. Alternatively, we would have to warehouse him somehow, and see him suffer for the lack of what he gets from school.

i don't agree with the sentiment but it's also not something i'm interested in debating so you guys have fun

xposts

Church is the other place that does, or did many of those things

For about one day a week, and also historically REALLY bad at getting you close to people not like you. Churches WAY more segregated than schools, for starters.

I think that really depends on the religious community, not comfortable with blanket statements like that.

Uh, by "depends on the religious community" do you mean that some churches are better than others at racial integration?

Great, goody for them, but that omits the nonreligious as well as those of different religions.

I doubt most Jewish people would agree that Christian churches are great models of cross-cultural contact, for example. Or that they would be excellent guardians of cultural melting-pot-ness in a post-school world.

think you're looking for Rolling CHALLENGING OPINIONS thread 2008

no I agree w/that YMP

and NA what you're describing sounds really hard to deal with. 7:30 is really early. it's longer than most adults are at work! even if the kids were hunky dory about it, you're getting to see them for what, two and a half hours a day tops? that piles so much pressure on those two hours - to say all the things you want to say, to do homework, to hear from them, to 'relax' etc. i'm sorry. i wish i had something wise to say but i don't.

yep it sucks. thanks for the empathy.

well that's what the weekends are for I guess

mine are only 5 & 2 but yeah you don't really get to do much of anything with them during the week. by the time I'm done feeding them (and myself) it's like 6:45, then I'm cleaning, helping the older one do his 'homework', then time to get ready for bed, let 'em watch a little TV, brush teeth, read books, etc. I guess I could keep them up later but then you get very little time to yourself at the end of the day which also sucks

if by "church" you meant "Christian, American churches" I wouldn't be too inclined to disagree, but I assumed a more expansive definition encompassing religious institutions of all kinds was implied, in which case I really do disagree.

fwiw my Jewish temple is p multi-culti, our membership includes latinos, asians, african americans, plus yr standard mix of ashkenazi and sephardic Jews

and other various religious traditions - Islam, jehovah's witnesses, etc. - have long traditions of being multi-ethnic.

and yet the temple's congregants are all or mostly Jewish, yes?

and at least a little religious?

not sure what you're getting at

as with school, congregants are alike in some ways (in being interested in practicing Judaism) and unlike in others (economic and ethnic backgrounds)

Well, the original sentiment was "school sucks and why do we make kids go there." Some reasons were put forth, including "it puts you in proximity with people not like you." If the response to that is "well, church can do that," then my response is "church puts you in proximity only with other congregants of that church."

One of the things churches/religious institutions generally don't do is put you in proximity with people who don't go to church. Or who go to a different church. Which is, I think, an uncontroversial point. Not to diss any particular temple or whatever, but it's not a substitute for what schools do in this one narrow way.

fair enough. I took Tracer's point to be broader, which was that historically churches/temples/whatever served as vehicles for socialization + binding communities together, a place where you learned how to function in and deal with groups of people (regardless of how ethnically or religiously homogenous they were). Within a modern context that's obviously less true, particularly in America.

Cool, sorry to be all Captain Strident there

Learned a tough parenting lesson from K (almost 8) on Sunday -- had both kids with me shopping at the farmers' market and they've both taken to liking a couple of the more gourmet items there so I sometimes buy them as a treat (E likes buffalo milk cheese, K and E both like a boutique salami maker from vermont). The way they were sampling the items like little adults was cute and drawing attention, and I guess I must have also felt self-conscious about it so I made a joke about my kids having "expensive taste." On the way home K got very upset with me and felt I was "making fun of her." Examining it, it occurred to me that I had, in fact, used humor at her expense in a situation where under the surface I felt embarrassed or uncomfortable -- maybe at seeming like some kind of spoiled yuppie who buys their kids expensive salami. As a person with a caustic and sometimes self-deprecating sense of humor, I sometimes have to check myself with my kids -- it's easy to forget that biting jokes actually are biting, that they can be hurtful, and that they can evidence deep insecurities that we aren't aware of.

It was completely wrong of me to make the joke at her expense, in other words. I was the one feeling bad about myself. It wasn't only a parenting lesson, but an uncomfortable light on some deeper self esteem issues I continue to have.

Yes and no? You are being very considerate and sensitive in noticing how she reacted and questioning whether you were in the wrong.

At the same time, it will probably stand them in good stead later on to gain an understanding of what things adults think are funny/ironic/poignant/mockable. Maybe? I mean, probably better that they get those messages when you're involved, rather than when you're not. You could protect them from all potentially negative impressions for the time you're with them, but then they might get to college and say something offhand like "no thanks, I prefer ethically sourced organic microbrews" and then be unpleasantly surprised at the reaction they get. A thought.

Meanwhile I spent 25 minutes looking for my son's backpack the other day. It has an expensive school iPad in it, and I was late for work and getting progressively more stressed. Finally I gave up and dropped him off at school.

He had been wearing it the whole time.

GodDAMN I appreciate you realizing and unpacking that whole idea, man alive. My boyfriend has occasionally literally done that to me AS AN ADULT because he's un-self-aware and not reflective. Like making a joke that rebounds on me when he's actually the uncomfortable one. Good for K and good for you.