Disney's newest movie FROZEN, loosely based on The Snow Queen

The plots of these films have sure gotten more complex over the decades, huh? Never really thought about that before.

The last one I saw (Coco, which is technically Pixar, but I’ll cite it anyway) felt like it had one too many twists/reveals/reversals as it reached its big climax. (Didn’t help that most of the movie was just kind of “walking around.”) Talk about a poignant ending, though!

Well, I enjoyed the movie... the beginning is pretty slow and pedestrian-feeling, which is a notable contrast to the original (I feel like the economy of storytelling at the beginning of Frozen is a highlight). But once the movie gets where it's going, it has a sort of gravity and integrity. I like how -- for better or worse -- it feels like a product of the same creative team as the original. And while the plot has some issues, it feels suitable & satisfying as a continuation/conclusion of the story. Overall, the movie doesn't feel like a "cash grab" or awkwardly grafted-on (...like Olaf's Frozen Adventure did!).

The songs were good, though not quite as good as before; and there's probably one too many of them. (Some of them are also clearly meant to be analogues to specific songs in the first movie.) But the lullaby ("All is Found") is beautiful; particularly the Kacey Mugraves version over the end credits. "Lost in the Woods" isn't the '80s pastiche I was expecting... it's more a straight-up tribute to (or parody of) Peter Cetera's "The Glory of Love."

There's a one to two minute scene in the middle of the movie in which Olaf reenacting the entire plot of the original movie.

This was a highlight! They did a good job with Olaf and his schtick in this film. Also, the (related) final gag scene is worth sitting thru 10 minutes of credits, and a Weezer song, to see.

One more thing: the animation was awesome (as you’d expect). We saw it in a big, plush, Dolby-equipped theater, and the tech details were top-notch.

There is some interesting visual analysis and other tidbits in this article I just found (while searching for something else): https://www.insider.com/frozen-2-details-you-missed-2019-11

There's a Weezer song in this? And a Panic! at the Disco song?!

Yeah — P!ATTD does “Into the Unknown” over the end credits; K. Musgraves does the lullaby; and Weezer (superfluously) performs “Lost in the Woods.”

(Then there’s a few minutes of score... long-ass credits!)

Visually I thought this was stunning, and *cinema is a visual medium* after all. The plot was sort of inscrutable, but I liked the mood and feel of the whole thing, it felt very folkloric and took some steps outside the typical linear disney story structure (while still having a few key parts of it). I didn't actually care that much that I didn't like the plot. The songs were bad and took me out of it -- the 80s ballad was *funny*, but it was still a big "why?" for me.

Myself, I’ve been kind of obsessed with a few of the songs... have been not-so-subtly suggesting to the family that we see the movie again.

(“Lost in the Woods” is not one of those songs, btw... though I do think it’s better than “Fixer-Upper” (the “funny” song from the first movie). I also think it serves a purpose and expresses something about Kristoff and his relationship w/Anna, both generally and in that moment.)

I felt like the music in the first one managed to stay more consistent with the tone of the movie itself -- even the fixer upper song, while corny, suited the troll scene. But here it seemed all over the place.

This was a good film for the white folks

xp I agree that most of the songs in the first movie are hard to beat; both "tunefully," and in how they convey plot & character details... this is particularly true of the "Do You Want to Build a Snowman?" > "For the First Time in Forever" > "Love Is an Open Door" triad. (And, of course, "Let It Go" is sui generis.)

That said, I haven't been able to get "Some Things Never Change" and "Into the Unknown" out of my head...

I also think “Show Yourself” is cool (it reminds me of a 10,000 Maniacs song); I like how it echoes the “Into the Unknown” melody, and builds to a big duet crescendo. Though I wish they had taken one more pass at the lyric — ”I’ve always been different / Normal rules did not apply...”

(My wife walked in earlier while I was folding laundry and listening to this soundtrack from my cellphone speaker.)

I've seen Frozen 2 reportedly making $739 million domestically, with a record breaking Thanksgiving weekend. So as also reported, Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker will likely become Disney's seventh $1 billion film this year. Talk about cornering the box office, apparently Disney is the box office.

that's the worldwide gross.

is there any logical explanation for a) how anna and elsa immediately recognized their father as a youth in the ice sculpture, when they have no idea what he looked like as a youth, and b) simultaneously did not recognize their mother as a youth in the same sculpture until later

keep in mind that the movie tells us that photography has been invented in the 30-40 years that have passed since the events of the flashback. which was a weird touch.

this movie was fine but it was so unnecessarily heavy. every character dealing with their own trauma and misery, including the one comic relief character going through an existential crisis. the water horse was cool though.

xxpost Ah, ok. I've seen it reported different ways.

is there any logical explanation for a) how anna and elsa immediately recognized their father as a youth in the ice sculpture, when they have no idea what he looked like as a youth, and b) simultaneously did not recognize their mother as a youth in the same sculpture until later

I assumed that there are portrait(s) of their dad as a youth hanging in the palace (they're big on portraits). Not sure about the mother; although was it established exactly when she moved to Arendelle and married their father?

My son y'day asked -- if water can flow through the mist and leave the enchanted forest, why didn't the Arendellians didn't just sail on the river back home? I guess, you know, it's magic...

keep in mind that the movie tells us that photography has been invented in the 30-40 years that have passed since the events of the flashback. which was a weird touch.

I also thought it was interesting that they established a real-world timeframe for the events in the Frozen Extended Universe (complete with the in-joke about The Little Mermaid's publication date).

So apparently there are references in the first one to it taking place in 1839?

https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Arendelle
The time period for Frozen is set in July 1839. In the upper left-hand corner of the geographical map shown in Frozen Fever, it is suggested by a set of Roman numerals that the year in which Anna turned nineteen was 1840. (MDCCCXL is the exact numeral order.) Oaken's statement, "A real howler in July, yes?", confirms the month is set in July. This being said, given that Anna is eighteen as of the events of Frozen, it can be logically assumed that Frozen takes place in July 1839.[2].

Frozen II seems to pick up pretty soon after the first one -- I don't remember if there are any references to passage of time, but it seems like a year at most.

According to Wiki the Daguerreotype was in fact introduced publicly worldwide in 1839 -- I don't know how widespread the use was yet, but it seems at least plausible that there could have been people in Arendelle with portrait photos by late 1839-mid 1840. I'm actually impressed that there was this much attention to detail.

Another interesting thing to note -- the wiki entry on the Sami history is light on this time period, but does note that Sami were becoming increasingly marginalized in the early to mid 19th century, and also that changes in borders hampered their ability to herd reindeer freely. There also was apparently a major controversy involving the Sami and the construction of a hydroelectric dam in the 1970s, so I wonder if there is a lose allusion to that.

*loose

Frozen II seems to pick up pretty soon after the first one -- I don't remember if there are any references to passage of time, but it seems like a year at most.

They say that it's been 3 years from the events of the first movie (and 6 years from when the parents disappeared). Interesting info you found, thx... I had sometimes wondered about "anachronisms" in the first movie, but didn't think (or care enough) to pin down the actual year.

A quick skim of the Wikipedia article for "Bicycle" seems to confirm my suspicion that the bike Anna rides in the first movie is anachronistic!!

3 years? Kristof really taking his sweet time to propose.

He's got a couple of bugs (or so I hear)

I read something the other day that pinpointed the time period closer to the 1860s, but can't recall where that was.

It was the time of trolls, iirc.

Looks like The Little Mermaid wuz first published in 1837, and then republished in 1849.

Another neat little thing -- Frozen is known to be loosely based on The Snow Queen by Hans Christian Andersen. IIRC, there's a scene where young dad says he is reading "some new Danish author." Hans Christian Andersen had his first commercial successes roughly in the early 1830s. Snow Queen was published in 1844 -- just a couple years after the events of the second film if the first really takes place in 1839.

Oh -- that's the the line that I thought was understood to be referring to "The Little Mermaid." Guess "The Snow Queen" makes more sense, lol

The deluxe version of this soundtrack has a few outtakes, more of which are underwhelming -- with the exception of "I Seek the Truth," an excellent Elsa song that sounds like it was written for the scene where "Show Yourself" ended up. (While the other outtakes are full versions recorded by cast members, this one is just Kristen Anderson-Lopez and a piano.)

*(“more” = “most”)

Lol, this was crazy. Much less free than the original, and I have no idea what kids are going to make of it. Zizek is going to have a lot of fun with it. I'm guessing the writers has read a fair share of Baldwin and Coates, reminded me a bit of Watchmen in that sense.

I’m seeing it again tomorrow (like a boss)!

This movie was really good. Lots of singing. Reminded me a lot like a Broadway musical. I wish the annoying snowman would’ve stayed dead though.

Cool second viewing... I think it’s an even better movie than the original, for a few reasons (and I love the songs).

The first one just feels so oddly effortless. While this one tries very hard. But it does achieve a lot. One moment I just straight up loved was Olaf saying 'the kids are alright :) ' There's so much empathy towards the young audience, whether they be normies or outcasts, and that is kinda rare.

Something that gets me about the movie is how one of its main concerns is the passage of time (which you'd think would be a natural subject for a movie sequel, but usually isn't). It probably affects you in a particular way if you have kid(s) who grew up with the first movie. When Olaf turns to the camera in "Some Things Never Change," and sings, "You all look a little bit older!" -- I get a lump in my throat, no joke.

My wife liked it better than the first one. Talking to my kids, it appears there is no antagonist in it?

frozen is the only animated movie of the last like 20 years that i just cannot get through and i’ve tried probably five times at this point

xp That’s true — no human antagonist, which is interesting (and even the non-human forces creating conflict turn out to be benevolent, once the conflict has been resolved).

(Similar to the first movie, however, a character previously thought to be a “good guy” turns out to be a “bad guy” — this time, it’s an ancestor of our heroes.)

There’s something very effective and satisfying about the whole “spiritual” quest & conflict at the heart of the movie; even though the exact mechanics of it still aren’t fully clear to me, after two viewings.

I said this in the Star Wars thread, but there are some interesting story & theme parallels with The Rise of Skywalker… right down to a centerpiece “heroine crossing a stormy sea” scene. And while I liked them both a lot, this is probably the better movie!

The mechanics of it are kinda abstract, but it does work really well as an allegory of settler colonialism, I found :)

“Into the Unknown” > “Let it go”

no way

My daughter has got into Star Wars recently, which I'm pretty much worn out by in my life but whatever she's super enthusiastic. We were watching the original trilogy the other day and I noticed a snatch of John Williams' score that sounded just like the four note hook from Into the Unknown.

One of my kids was just down in Atlanta for the Junior Theater Festival, where they got to compete with selections from "Frozen" (they won Best Performance for like the 11th time in a row; our middle school has a heck of a theatre program). Anyway, I've seen so many clips of them performing "Let It Go," in rehearsals, with small audiences, to judges, to parents, and ultimately to 6500 people. The woman who plays Elsa on Broadway was there, and she sang it. Later there was a mass sing-a-long and hundreds and hundreds of kids sang it. Now, I haven't seen "Frozen 2," but I've heard "Into the Unknown" a lot, because of my kids. In fact, when they saw "Frozen 2" they came home telling me they knew Disney was hoping it would be the new "Let It Go." But boy is it not, because I've seen "Let It Go" bring people to their feet and so on, and "Into the Unknown" just does not work that way. Part of it may be practical, that it is a less conventional song and harder to belt along with. But as an anthem, "Let It Go" is pretty relentless, imo, whether or not I ever want to hear it again.

Yeah, "Let It Go" is sui generis (and a mad achievement, in both songwriting and performance)... but I'd rather actually hear "Into the Unknown" these days. Sorry, secret siren!