US Politics, November 2019: These people are truly sick.

I don’t understand how this is convincing MAGA country when it’s super half baked

MAGA country doesn't/can't read. Like the GOPers who didn't read the transcripts etc. Ignorance is bliss. It's like the fight scene in "They Live."

MAGA country already believes this, they don't need convincing

Why even make a theory then?

I might be missing something. The whole thing seems odd. Like ukraine coordinated with the democrats after the hacked the server in order to take hold of the server to cover up the hacking?

for party of Law and Order they sure do tolerate (or even encourage) a great deal of corruption & other "rule bending" from their ppl, while the freewheeling godless Dems don't to anywhere near the same degree

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, November 21, 2019 11:58 AM (ten hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit:

There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.

There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time."

― jesus is zing (symsymsym),

Ha I thought of this quoted when I posted that, but couldn't remember it well enough to even google it effectively

Ukraine helped Dems hack themselves to guarantee Trump's loss, which is why he won overwhelmingly, with no help from anyone else.

It's just some muddled bullshit rattling around Trump's skull that he likes to repeat even though it makes no sense. The rest of the Republican establishment has to at least make a passing effort to act like it makes sense so that they don't accidentally upset Trump's reality bubble.

xxp

And that's why corrupt Ukraine must be compelled to investigate corrupt Ukraine's interference in the 2016 election.

The conspiracy theory claimed that the company — which had investigated a hack of a Democratic National Committee (DNC) server — had planted evidence on the server to implicate Russia, and that the FBI had failed to take possession of the server to verify that claim.[11] Although the FBI did not take possession of the server, CrowdStrike had provided the FBI with an image and traffic logs of the server to conduct its own analysis, which led the Mueller Report to concur with the intelligence community that the server had been hacked by Russian intelligence.[1][12

This clarified it a little. Still a little weird. Are the hacks themselves supposed to have been staged as a setup? Or was the framing done during the investigation, just opportunistically. And if so, why did democrats suddenly lose interest in the real perpetrators? Especially considering—say for a moment you’re a pizzagater or a q anon—then you’d believe the hacks revealed evidence of serious crimes.

More importantly, the poll shows more independents now oppose impeachment than support it, a significant change from Emerson's polling in October. The new poll found 49 percent oppose impeachment compared to 34 percent who support it. In October, 48 percent of independents polled supported impeachment, against 39 percent who opposed.

Since October, Emerson has found Trump’s job approval rating jump by 5 points, from 43 percent to 48 percent.

This country is fucked, blow it up and start over

Trump wants to prove “no one” helped him get elected. But the hacks did have some effect—debatable how much—and were done by *someone*. So even if russia was framed, why would effect his concern that the fact of the hacks undermine the legitimacy of his election?

I might be missing something. The whole thing seems odd. Like ukraine coordinated with the democrats after the hacked the server in order to take hold of the server to cover up the hacking?

Trump has consistently sounded confused by his own theory - like he is getting bits of other theories mixed up, or being fed lines he only partially understands. That said, the clip doesn’t seem to support the idea he is claiming Ukraine hacked the DNC.

The most coherent conspiracy theory is that the DNC looked for a scapegoat after someone internal hacked the emails and saw an opportunity to gin up a collusion narrative by hiring a firm that would blame it on Russia, which they could domino into blaming it on Trump. Crowdstrike isn’t a Ukrainian company but has done a lot of work with the Atlantic Council around Ukrainian stuff. There is no evidence this is true and it doesn’t sound like Trump can really get it straight in his own head.

MAGA country already believes this, they don't need convincing

― brigadier pudding (DJP), Friday, November 22, 2019 11:17 AM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Why even make a theory then?

― treeship., Friday, November 22, 2019 11:17 AM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I might be missing something. The whole thing seems odd. Like ukraine coordinated with the democrats after the hacked the server in order to take hold of the server to cover up the hacking?

― treeship

we really have to stop trying to look for logic or hidden truth in their actions. it is an open ploy to confuse people into doubting the truth. it doesn't matter how dumb it is, if people believe it. and a dumb theory that makes no sense can still grow and take on a life of its own:

One day after the House wrapped up public hearings in its impeachment inquiry, two Republican senators opened their own investigation into Ukraine.

Sens. Ron Johnson (R-WI) and Chuck Grassley (R-IA) sent a letter to the National Archives seeking records from Obama Administration-era contacts with Ukrainian officials.

The request appears to set up a bid in the Senate to support a counternarrative related to the investigations sought by President Trump and Rudy Giuliani.

one level above the total mouthbreathers who just accept trump's ukraine narrative, you have conservatives like my dad who like to think of themselves as "investigative" - the johnson/grassley actions are red meat to them. of COURSE there's something to this ukraine narrative! real life senators are demanding action, they wouldn't do that if it wasn't real!

Its all super bizarre. If the whole thing was a ploy to smear trump, why would crowdstrike have planted evidence that russia hacked the server? Why not plant evidence that someone from trump’s campaign did?

Usually conspiracies have some kind of internal coherence, even though they’re based on false assumptions

embed from nymag reggie link^

Remember, "Crowdstrike" is the conspiracy theory that Ukraine and the DNC framed Russia. Here's President Trump again pushing this claim, supported by Republicans: that Russia is innocent, didn't interfere in the 2016 election. Who did it? Ukraine and the DNC. pic.twitter.com/mmSjgKTQJq

— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) November 22, 2019

How is this possibly happening. It's just unbelievable.

These dummies even know the story, know he's full of shit, everybody knows the story but one person

They don't believe anything. It doesn't matter what their story is. They're playing the game. The deflection is really far fetched proportionate to their desperation to deflect. The narrative is in place in whole or part originating from Russia, and they're rolling with it in an effort to distract. In the meantime the actual series of events that are the premise of the investigation are being treated as confusing aimless nonsense that is also so very boring "Yawn sorry what are you even saying you dems are just talking in circles are you guys feeling OK? You sound delirious..."

Trump's hearing is perfect, therefore it is not possible to overhear a shouted phonemail.

Trump's health is the best it can be, therefore it is not possible he had a health scare.

Trump's is super successful, therefore he cannot fail.

Trump is confused, therefore it is confusing.

treesh, stop trying to make sense of this, there isn't an logic to it, just desperate straw grasping.

many xps to treesh

extremely related: think of how trump/giuliani were pushing Zelensky to announce he was investigating biden. they didn't care about the substance of the information. they cared about the PERCEPTION that he was being investigated

(Heh, phonemail.)

Does anyone believe America recovers from the Trump years? If you do think that we can right the ship and save our country, please explain your theory.

it's natural to look for logic or coherence in theories, especially when they come from the president of the united states.

but when you give the benefit of the doubt to trump on this, that he actually has some sort of point that he's not expressing clearly, you are playing his game and losing.

Usually conspiracies have some kind of internal coherence, even though they’re based on false assumptions

Aha, but if they planted evidence it was someone from the Trump camp they’d have to turn it over to the FBI, which they didn’t want to do ipso facto, cogito ergo sum, it all makes sense.

But yes, there is no real point in trying to make sense of it.

Does anyone believe America recovers from the Trump years? If you do think that we can right the ship and save our country, please explain your theory.

counteroffer - has america recovered from the 1960s? have we recovered from the civil war? or from slavery? if yes, then why do you think we can't recover this time, and please explain your theory.

give into despair imo

maybe just maybe 2scoops pushes this ukraine bullshit in part to cover for russia cheating for him again in 2020. his weirdo fanbase needs him to give them "plausible" deniability to keep up the MAGA kayfabe routine

counteroffer - has america recovered from the 1960s? have we recovered from the civil war? or from slavery? if yes, then why do you think we can't recover this time, and please explain your theory.

I totally think American can recover, not that that means much. Because in the end the majority of people don't give a shit, barely vote, and completely tune most distractions out because they are working and/or struggling and/or on opioids. I just read that weird memoir "Sounds Like Titanic," about the Ivy League student touring as the pretend violinist for this new age composer/charlatan. It took place while John Kerry was running for president, and when the author noticed their tour dates were overlapping with the Kerry campaign she had to explain to the composer who Kerry was. (The composer, incidentally, also supposedly had never heard Beethoven's Fifth, either.)

I mean, if by "recover" you mean "forget" or "pretend it never happened," then for sure.

if you mean recovers the status quo from the past forty years, I think that's certainly possible

if you mean recovers from the damage we *maybe* had a *slim chance* of undoing before Trump took office, no. That will never happen notwithstanding catastrophe and soup-to-nuts reboot

Apologies for the pessimism Alfred et al, still gonna love it up and fight the good fight but the question was asked

this plus this sounds correct:

i think there’s a case to be made that america is where it is today because it hasn’t recovered from those things tbh
― actor Robert de Niro disguised as an Uzbek homeopath (bizarro gazzara)

+ I mean, if by "recover" you mean "forget" or "pretend it never happened," then for sure.

― Josh in Chicago

The inability to disprove these batshit confusing conspiracy theories is both why they are propagated in the first place and why they don't go away. If someone believes there is a secret high level pedophile ring operating out of a pizza place's basement, how do you ever convince someone to come down from that particular high? There is more proof of bigfoot or the loch ness monster, but no one is storming the PNW or Scotland with automatic weapons in search of The Truth.

Look, we get Trump out of office and then we just...hang a nice tapestry in front of our current era. Something pretty but not too eye-catching, lest we wind up looking directly at it too often. Just, y'know, usher people off in the other direction when they get too close so they don't see all of those other obfuscating tapestries behind it stretching off into the distance, it'll all be fine, just fiiiiiiiine.

Oh fucking lord

POC and queerfolk don't acknowledge "better" or "worse." Life is struggle. Sometimes you win small stakes; often we lose. When were things fucking good?

here we go

maybe just maybe 2scoops pushes this ukraine bullshit in part to cover for russia cheating for him again in 2020. his weirdo fanbase needs him to give them "plausible" deniability to keep up the MAGA kayfabe routine

― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, November 22, 2019 9:36 AM

agree

More importantly, the poll shows more independents now oppose impeachment than support it, a significant change from Emerson's polling in October. The new poll found 49 percent oppose impeachment compared to 34 percent who support it. In October, 48 percent of independents polled supported impeachment, against 39 percent who opposed.

Since October, Emerson has found Trump’s job approval rating jump by 5 points, from 43 percent to 48 percent.

This country is fucked, blow it up and start over

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, November 22, 2019 12:25 PM bookmarkflaglink

Emerson is weird, they're a reliable pollster, but this same poll had something like 22% of Republicans supporting impeachment and other polls barely have them in double digits or less.

Also doesn't include this week's revelations so I am watching the polls that come out the next few

When did Happy Days take place? That seemed like a good time. Bobby sox, Al's Diner, anachronistic sideburns.

https://i.imgur.com/KbkOoa6.jpg

https://www.teepublic.com/kids-t-shirt/3894934-life-okay-very-good-carrer-makes-better
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/carrer

Shitmerica

My understanding: The reason Crowdstrike blamed it on Russia was because all the hacking attempt, without fail, took place during certain hours of the day, which they pointed out were office hours in Moscow. That's been public knowledge since summer 2016, so anyone who doubted Russian involvement has always implicitly have to explain away that. That Ukrainians did it, but on Moscow time, makes more sense than the Taibbi / Greenwald strategy of just ignoring it and talking about wmd's instead.

Good point KarlMalone. I actually do think America has been a shit show since the beginning and the whole 'we're the best' thing was really just bravado and military. We have always been horrible, since the very beginning. My heritage is Seminole Indian, so my ancestors suffered at the hands of the grand old USA from the very beginning. So therefore, America has always been broken. I guess the thing I feel is new is the inability for facts to actually make a difference.

So therefore, America has always been broken. I guess the thing I feel is new is the inability for facts to actually make a difference.

yeah, i feel that too. it is hard to reconcile with...just about everything i believed in at one time.

TBF, the landmass now occupied by the USA experienced several pre-USA centuries of absolute bullshit, as well. It's pretty much just an utterly cursed patch of earth.

thanks for the reminder about Sounds Like Titanic, I heard about that earlier this year and it was fascinating. Need to pick that up.

My understanding: The reason Crowdstrike blamed it on Russia was because all the hacking attempt, without fail, took place during certain hours of the day, which they pointed out were office hours in Moscow.

There was definitely way more evidence than that. They tied it to a specific firm!