the cheating thread

Wonder if the Astros' tanking years made it so that not winning was not an option and pushed ownership/management to green light this sort of behaviour. I always believed it was going to get ugly when you have 5-6 fanbases that are going realize that 3 seasons of straight tanking is going to be for naught and I circle back to the absolute chaos it would be in Houston if they didn't pull it off. Plus, the whole tanking to be great narrative the Astros/Cubs installed has served MLB so well.

Pro sports in general is pretty much a clown college these days. They could really just get rid of a 1/3 of the teams in each league and probably have a better TV product in the end.

I think pro baseball is a bit of a paper card house as I just don't see how the money adds up anymore in the game. It just does not seem to be that popular yet the money keeps going up, seems like an economic bubble waiting to pop.

https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2019/08/26/baseball-popularity/38a84a9487efa373cf8bf6b9cf6546https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2019/08/26/baseball-popularity/38a84a9487efa373cf8bf6b9cf654688fb4703c2/attendance_tg-300.jpg

According to Nielsen ratings:

In 2019, 12 of the 29 United States-based major league teams were the most popular prime-time broadcast in their market.

An additional seven teams ranked in the top three in prime time.

On cable, 24 major league teams ranked first in their market in prime time.

M.L.B. ranked first over all on cable in every major league market in the United States except Miami.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/22/sports/baseball/baseball-popularity-world-series.html

good EW episode w/ Paul Dickson on sign stealing thru the ages

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/effectively-wild-episode-1459-the-history-of-sign-stealing/

Someone edited the 2017 #WorldSeries Wikipedia page and awarded the World Series MVP to....the #Astros centerfield camera man. #MLB #Dodgers pic.twitter.com/S6x8q4R3Fd

— Matt Johnson (@MattJ_Sports) November 21, 2019

like Manfred said, just the Astros!

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2870111-report-2018-world-series-champion-red-sox-used-video-replay-room-to-steal-signs

and further:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28439945/sources-mlb-decision-discipline-astros

whoa

BREAKING: Per sources, MLB’s penalties for #Astros include:

*One-year suspensions for GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch.

*Losses of 1st and 2nd round draft picks in both 2020 and ‘21.

*A fine of $5M.

Full story and more context with @EvanDrellich: https://t.co/djvKEYFiC7

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) January 13, 2020

i'm assuming Luhnow and Hinch can't/won't appeal?

alex cora's gonna get nuked too

and Beltran?

beltran will skate because he was a player at the time, and apparently they're not going after the players

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOLxKeUXUAADD27?format=jpg&name=small

NICE

🥃🐸 pic.twitter.com/vP5A0s59uT

— Trevor Bauer (@BauerOutage) January 13, 2020

wow. honestly i haven't followed all of this very closely. i knew it was serious, but didn't realize the penalties would be like this.

the question is what if we know about 3 more teams come April

Didn't think Manfred had the stomach for it tbh

losing those draft picks is no joke, even if you're picking 30th

if the red sox investigation uncovers anything at all, i think cora might get a lifetime ban

In no way did I think there'd be a penalty with teeth, wow.

Sweep your own front porch or damage your own dugout monitor.

Jim Crane says Jeff Luhnow and A.J. Hinch have been dismissed.

— Jake Kaplan (@jakemkaplan) January 13, 2020

Wow. Manfred also went after the Astros’ baseball ops culture. He called it "very problematic” and “insular” and "one that valued and rewarded results over other considerations.” I am surprised he would make those points so bluntly in this report.

— Marc Carig (@MarcCarig) January 13, 2020

i knew if i saved this picture on my phone that one day the perfect news cycle would hit pic.twitter.com/tKAuxiZVxB

— ric sanchez (@ricsanchez) January 13, 2020

a lot of people (online) think this still didn't go far enough – but daym if this isn't much harsher than i was expecting!
esp glad Taubman got spanked hard.

can't wait to see what they do to Cora, he may very well get the worst of it.

well Luhnow is likely done in baseball so it's hard to sketch 'worse'

anyone could hire him on, in theory, after his suspension tho.

less likely than Hinch i think

luhnow 'accepts responsibility' but was clueless; it was all the fault of 'lower-level employees' and alex cora

Here is Jeff Luhnow's full statement, his first response to today's news. pic.twitter.com/9AbDFEtkbP

— Jared Diamond (@jareddiamond) January 13, 2020

Happy new year “bro”. I hope this year you find happiness, clearly the most miserable soul on this app. GOD BLESS ❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️❄️ https://t.co/w4kxR4Ejya

— Lance McCullers Jr. (@LMcCullers43) January 13, 2020

^^^ Clevinger & Bauer went after McCullers but shit's all getting deleted, that's one of the few virtues of twitter embeds I guess. ^^^

i think the real lesson we've learned here is: never leave mike fiers off your playoff roster

Didn't expect people to get fired over this. Sean Payton wasn't fired by the Saints (sorry, football mention on a baseball board) in the headhunting scandal.

Luhnow's "I am not a crook" statement is clearly a lie, but obviously he wants to claim plausible deniability when he looks for another job.

Different universe, but in the book I'm reading about the '69 Mets, there's a J.C. Martin-related tangent about how the no-hit White Sox used to a) doctor the field around home plate to deaden balls off the bat, and b) keep all their baseballs in special storage so they'd come out feeling like shot puts.

(I think that may turn up in Ball Four somewhere too--it wasn't a secret.)

Cora fired.

baseball in the 2010s/20s is some bleak shit

life in the 2010s/20s is some bleak shit...the sludge runneth over

cheat lie steal...the american way I suppose

It is still unbelievably hilarious in the wake of all the analytical baseball it still comes down to just f'it we are going to steal some signs.

Really, the perfect way for the city of Enron to get it's champion.

It is also totally Pete Rose for him to say, "no big deal we all cheated on this stuff" to "this is worse than me betting on baseball" within like 72 hours.

xp i'm with you man

I think these 20s are oiff to a roaring start!

a friend of mine notes this is a victory for the union in a weird way. not going after players because it would drag out forever. unlike the PED scandals where management got off scot-free.

Beltran rumored to be stepping down

lol

“Integrity” is a huge franchise buzzword with the Mets - especially with Fred Wilpon - to the point there is legitimate concern for Carlos Beltran’s job at the moment.

— Mike Puma (@NYPost_Mets) January 15, 2020

hmm

Jessica Mendoza is the first Mets employee to publicly address the Astros scandal.

She said she has a problem with whistleblower Mike Fiers going public and telling the world about the Astros’ cheating. https://t.co/nlGnsx3pTs

— Tim Healey (@timbhealey) January 16, 2020

what a stunning lack of perspective

Thank you for your service, Carlos Beltran.

he had a decent run, but a .500 record just isn't going to cut it

he lasted longer than wally backman with the d-backs, at least

uh oh

Beltran's niece tweeting about the buzzers, which matches up with what Ive been told from about 5 different parties. pic.twitter.com/zla70bW0Wu

— Jomboy (@Jomboy_) January 16, 2020

home saturday vs the nats
split squad at the nats on sunday
full squad at the tigers on monday

interestingly they do not play the yankees -- guess the atlantic/gulf coasts are largely separate

i missed this

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28730745/frustration-mounts-rob-manfred-edict-protect-astros-beanballs

Some organizations might be aided by their own limitations. The video room at Oakland Coliseum resides a significant distance from the dugout, former Athletics pitcher Brett Anderson mentioned.

“I know the A’s weren’t cheating,” said Anderson, who signed with Milwaukee this winter. “Because, one, I don’t know if they could afford it. And to relay from fucking 300 yards away in the video room? What were we going to do, get some vendor to throw some popcorn up in the air, or something? It’s too fucking far to relay something.”

Anderson joked the only way for Oakland to communicate would be through the ballpark’s decaying infrastructure. “The lights go out, it’s a curveball,” Anderson said. “If there’s a sewage backup, it’s a fastball.”

haha that rules

Off-topic but it was SO WEIRD when both Anderson AND Trevor Cahill came back to the A’s in ‘18

lol xp

eat shit papi

Papi on Mike Fiers: "Why didn't you talk about it during the season when it was going on? Why didn't you say, I don't want to be no part of it? So you're looking like a snitch. Why do you have to talk about it after? Why did nobody say anything while it was going on?"

— Ian Browne (@IanMBrowne) February 20, 2020

stfu & go drink a milkshake papi

papi was a juicer so he's got to stand his ground

he does love baseball cards, though. he loves to sit at the kitchen table by himself and dream of baseball cards.

I agree with this take

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2020/2/26/21153495/houston-astros-sign-stealing-scandal-baseball-fan-interest

We are hooting and hollering every time a new baseball player goes in on the Astros. We are eager to debate which teams will bring down baseball’s newest menace. Why do you think my editor asked me, a football writer, to write about baseball? Because we can’t stop clicking on articles about baseball!

yeah 100% cosigned here too

no, this is not baseball itself

Baseball now has a team that everybody hates, and what a blessing it is.

i've found the seething bloodlust of the fans on reddit twitter etc mostly irritating and the opposing players leaning into it strikes me as empty theatrics. maybe i'm cynical but i'll never assume a pro athlete is above cheating to get an edge. one of the cool things about wrestling is that if you pay enough attention to all the behind the scenes bullshit you come to learn that even the most beloved faces are complete pieces of shit.

Listen the Red Sox are genuinely evil but I’m not sure I’d go so far as to label them baseball’s Cowboys

don't you have a gio urshela votive candle to be lighting

I probably should be tbh

hviii, u root for baseball's 1977 Oakland Raiders

righteous

BREAKING: #RedSox penalties:

*Loss of 2020 2nd-round pick.

*Ban of replay operator J.T. Watkins through 2020 playoffs and from doing same job in ‘21.

*Ban of Alex Cora through ‘20 playoffs, but only for conduct with #Astros.

Story with @EvanDrellich: https://t.co/6Ysn9hsRFa

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) April 22, 2020

"2020 playoffs"

what a joke

ya, that's pathetic.

So we're supposed to believe that Cora was a key figure in the Astros' cheating scheme, but somehow wasn't fully aware of the cheating happening in Boston that coincidentally started when he arrived?

he was fully reformed!

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/does-cheating-matter/

https://nypost.com/2020/06/13/yankees-up-in-arms-after-judge-orders-to-unseal-mlb-letter/amp/

The Yankees don't want to release the letter, claiming it would cause "significant reputational injury". That is the most pathetic defense ever, why would anyone give AF about that.

I mean seriously, the Astros incurred the stiffest punishment in the history of baseball, but goshdarnit now that people might think a little less of the Yankees organization this has got to stop.

well it's a goddamn golden reputation, you must admit

streisanded lol

Thought the judge in the url referred to Aaron Judge