taylor swift iridescent smoke bombs thread 2019 - lover

please... think of the carlyle group

Can you answer the question?

(All I said was it was odd; if it turns out there’s a way they could “help” her then I’m wrong.)

nobody except a very small number of people knows what any of these contracts stipulate... it doesn't take a huge stretch of the imagination to come up w/ reasons why she would think that applying social pressure to the carlyle group would help her. and even if she's wrong i'm not going to cry for uh "one of the world's largest and most successful investment firms with $212 billion of assets"

I guess. Wikipedia also says they have “more than 1,575 employees in 31 offices on six continents.” But you’ve made clear that think the idea of safety threats here is trivial, and I doubt anything bad will happen either. I still think her “call to action” paragraph was not aimed at rallying “social pressure” in to help her case (the rest of the statement and accompanying publicity would have done that), but was purely meant to be retaliatory/threatening. I do hope things work out for her.

Sorry that got mangled. You get my drift. She could have released the main part of the statement, and gotten the same widespread support that she got the first time. The additional “pressure” she’s added doesn’t seem likely to force anyone’s hand, but we’ll see

The idea that if you sign a contract, then it doesn't matter what happens to you, you only get what you signed up for, is really odd and inconsiderate. But the other idea that if you work for a big company, then it doesn't matter what happens to you, you only get what you signed up for, isn't much better.

Whatever we think of it, it is something new, no? Explicitly sending fans after enemies, and even other artists associated with those enemies, I can't remember seeing that before?

How is this not 100% unacceptable and 100% on Taylor?

https://www.etonline.com/big-machine-records-offices-shut-down-due-to-threats-amid-taylor-swift-feud-136467?amp&__twitter_impression=true

remember m.i.a. posting lynn hirschberg's phone number on twitter after trufflegate? lol xp

the reason some -- myself among them, admittedly -- find it difficult to particularly care about the specific injustice faced by taylor swift at the hands of the music industry is that she currently enjoys very nearly the greatest outcome possible for an artist caught in the midst of this exploitive system.

i'm sometimes tempted to laugh when people wonder if a music 'industry' as we know it -- with artists + songs winning hearts, capturing attention and constellating imaginations nation- or even worldwide -- could even exist without some measure of the deeply predatory capitalist pigshit endemic to the system. but it's not an absurd question, as the industry has never existed without it and in fact may never be without it until it ceases to be a profit-extracting enterprise at all.

the industry has always thrived, in large part, on the willingness of young creatives -- many of whom are women, non-white, or both -- to agree to cede a suffocating amount of control over their output to old (frequently white, frequently male) bean-counters without a creative bone in their body whose work consists largely of schmoozing with other powerful folks or placing bets on the expiration dates of their signees. 'willingness' may be an insensitive or inaccurate word to use, as artists often feel they have no choice at all but to fall in line, at least for the moment, in exchange for a real shot at being heard by a mass audience. the artist's dream is to defy the presumed expiration date, to prove her worth (culturally in one sense, but financially at the end of the day) to such an undeniable extent that the machine's parts will begin to refashion themselves to keep her afloat rather than to push her out as soon as she starts showing weakness, so convinced of her perpetual relevance. one day, the industry may work for me, not against me.

the vast majority never come even remotely close to attaining that dream. taylor swift has.

of the seven singles swift has solicited to top 40 radio over the course of the past two album cycles, six have underperformed, and badly, from an airplay/exposure perspective, i.e. what the bigwigs at labels and radio care about (as opposed to short-lived billboard peaks that stans like to retweet). (if you're wondering, the one exception was "delicate."). in that count, i do include current single "lover," which appears to be nearly out of steam despite the recent release of its remix with shawn mendes.

an artist who's thoroughly plugged into the machinery but still chasing the dream these days could have two, maybe three such underperformers in succession before important folks stop returning their calls, a-list producers are suddenly no longer in reach for the next project, programming directors stop eagerly scooping them into their playlists, etc. and plans for a subsequent full-length release go on hold. such is not the case for taylor swift, who has enjoyed the privilege of having each and every one of her underperformers rocket up pop radio playlists with alarming urgency -- at least, until it became clear that listeners weren't biting and the songs were then promptly dropped like hot potatoes.

though some players, including scooter braun, certainly aren't, the industry as a whole is still working very hard on taylor swift's behalf. this is why, despite buzzfeed thinkpieces essaying to explain why we should all care and #StandWithTaylor, despite aoc and elizabeth warren hoping to use the news to help direct some public ire toward private equity firms, so many of us simply cannot bring ourselves to care one way or another.

we can recognize that at the heart of the situation is an injustice perpetrated on the (relatively) vulnerable on behalf of the (relatively) greedy. taylor swift is accurate when she frames her own struggle as one commonly shared by many artists, particularly women, caught up in this system. however, given the immense privilege she currently enjoys within that same system, it's fair for critics to wonder to what extent any corrective to her particular situation would apply to those not as firmly at the center of the industry. if the status quo fails to change for anyone else, then was the change itself meaningful? does framing the struggle as one made on behalf of all young artists, or all women artists, ring a bit hollow?

i don't know. but congrats to abc, who should now be able to crank up the prices on ads surrounding taylor swift's performance slot on the ama's, regardless of whether anything noteworthy or good happens in said performance whatsoever. be sure to tune in sunday, november 24th at 8/7c.

What a post! But is top 40 chart performance really so important for an artist of her (rarefied) stature — isn’t her proven & consistent ability to sell tons of albums and concert tickets the reason her calls are returned, etc.?

But is top 40 chart performance really so important for an artist of her (rarefied) stature — isn’t her proven & consistent ability to sell tons of albums and concert tickets the reason her calls are returned, etc.?

Unsuccessful singles are the first dominoes to fall. Next, the albums stop selling. (This has already happened - 1989 was 9x platinum in the US, Reputation was 3x platinum, Lover is "only" platinum.) Eventually, the concerts stop selling out.

Love to write thousand word posts on things I don’t care about one way or the other

Eventually, the concerts stop selling out.

Trying to think of any pop stars of the past 10+ years that can no longer pack the venues they previously filled, but I'm coming up short. People might not buy the new album(s), but fans still flock to big shows.

i find the brouhaha interesting even if i don't particularly mind how the situation at the center of it resolves. touché tho

xp katy perry? idk, i don't pay a lot of attention to the touring business

Trying to think of any pop stars of the past 10+ years that can no longer pack the venues they previously filled, but I'm coming up short.

Nicki Minaj cancelled an entire tour because the tickets weren't selling IIRC.

i'd like to salute the brave men & women who are protecting america from taylor swift's music. god is smiling upon us!

A recent article mentioned that this guy is Swift’s attorney, representing her in the negotiations w/Big Machine. I’d love to be a fly on the wall...

Great post, dyl.

dyl, my only fault with your post is "creatives" is as a noun :)

Idk when 16 year old Taylor signed the contract I doubt she ever envisioned a day when Big Machine would tell her she wasn’t allowed to play her own songs, just as I’m sure Big Machine never envisioned that in 2019 Taylor would be able to mobilize a fan army and besiege their office and threaten the world economy by taking down the Carlyle Group.

Big Machine is still maintaining they’re not trying to stop her from performing any songs from her catalog on the AMAs, and pointing out that they would have no legal right to do so.

Xps Nicki minaj AND future, don’t forget

I suspect there is more going on with that cancelled tour than slow sales (has there been any real reporting on this?) or, per their claim, "production issues." The only other high profile act I can think of to pull the plug this dramatically was Iggy Azalea, but that was preceded by a huge backlash that Minaj (afaik) has not faced.

I was curious, so looked up Christina Aguilera, who toured America in 2018 behind a modestly performing (at best?) album, and she did indeed play smaller places. Sometimes that's strategic, though. For example, Madonna is playing those same small venues on her current outing, and while Janet Jackson packed an arena the last time I saw her, she had previously played small venues as a similar sort of reset.

Madonna is playing those same small venues on her current outing

1) Madonna is old, and is thus probably more interested in doing longer "residencies" in a few cities than a full national tour;
2) Madonna Inc. probably did the research beforehand and figured out that she wouldn't be able to sell out arenas nationwide, but by limiting ticket sales and calling it "intimate" she can drive up demand (and prices) in the places she does play.

I wonder if Taylor needed/received Big Machine’s permission when she performed “All Too Well” for that NPR Tiny Desk Concert last month (which wasn’t a live broadcast, afaik)

Madonna can totally sell at arenas.

Madonna can totally sell at arenas.

What are you basing that on? Your feelings, or market research? Because in fact very, very few acts are arena-sized anymore; the public appetite for those kind of concerts has diminished quite a bit over the last decade or two. Almost every big concert now features roped-off or unsold sections.

Who is Madonna's audience? I don't see her having much of a young (under-30) fan base; her biggest fans are Gen X-ers and older millennials, people in their 30s and/or 40s. Those people don't go out as much as they once did. They have kids, they're tired after work, blah blah blah. And she doesn't have hit records anymore — her last Top 10 single (on the main Billboard chart, not the dance chart) was in 2012, seven years ago. None of the three singles from her new album charted at all.

Neither my feelings nor market research. I'm pretty sure the last time she toured, 2015, it was all sold out arenas. Indeed, per Wiki (fwiw): "The tour courted a number of controversies, but attained commercial success. It was attended by an audience of over 1.05 million with all the shows being sold out. Rebel Heart Tour grossed $169.8 million, extending Madonna's record as the highest-grossing solo touring artist with total gross of $1.131 billion, beginning with the Blond Ambition Tour (1990). This ranked her in third place on the all-time top-grossing Billboard Boxscore list, only behind the Rolling Stones and U2."

I suppose things could have changed since then. But she's one of the most popular, top selling artists of all time, I find a precipitous decline in interest unlikely.

And also, from personal experience, there have been tons of hot-ticket sold-out arena shows in recent months/years, from Tool to Bob Seger to Ariana Grande. Hell, I took my daughter to see Panic! At the Disco last year, and even *that* was sold out. I think your claim of "almost every big concert now features roped-off or unsold sections" isn't really backed up, unless you can, you know, back it up.

Several different artists/bands have multi-night residencies booked this month at my local arena; I assume that means they’re selling the place out...

Yes, but each of those cases is different. Maná are legends, and they can do that in Southern California but not nationwide. Slayer are on their we-really-mean-it-this-time final tour, and they too are from California. Here in NY they did one night at Madison Square Garden and there were a lot of people there but I don't believe it was a sellout. Ariana Grande is legitimately huge, but for how much longer? Do you see her having a decades-long Mariah Carey-style career? I don't know if pop music still works that way anymore.

In major markets (New York, LA, Chicago), it's possible for some artists to sell out arenas. But that doesn't mean it's scalable across the country anymore. I would argue tiat in at least 40 out of 50 states, you're gambling on a half or 3/4 house.

Guess I'll have to take your word for it; sounds like everything's an exception to the rule.

As for Ariana -- I totally think she could have a career rivaling Mariah's (which has had its ups & downs, btw). But even if she retired tomorrow, surely there will be new Ariana Grandes* and Billie Eilishes filling arenas each decade, no?

(*in terms of popularity, not necessarily greatness!)

Btw -- I hope Ariana does not retire tmrrw, b/c I have a ticket to her 12/22 show at the Forum (the final show of the tour, and the 2nd show I'm seeing on the tour). I'll let you know afterward how I rate her prospects for continued success in the 2020s!

billie eilish's career has already peaked i can feel it

But even if she retired tomorrow, surely there will be new Ariana Grandes* and Billie Eilishes filling arenas each decade, no?

I don't know. I feel like the trend line points downward, and I've read quotes from industry folks in Billboard and other places talking about this for several years now. I don't know how long it'll take, but arena concerts are probably gonna go the way of shopping malls eventually - music just isn't gonna be experienced in that kind of massive group context in the future. It has a lot to do with an overall atomization and breakdown of what once was (or at least seemed like) a monoculture. I mean, there was a time when Big Pop Hits were inescapable, but I've never heard an Ariana Grande song. All music is much more opt-in now than it was 20 or even 10 years ago, and every artist is a cult artist now - some cults are just bigger than others, but nobody appeals to everybody the way pop megastars used to.

You sound like Dick Cheney, who had to be explained who Madonna was in the 1980s (lol).

crüt -- I read that in the Beck "Loser" voice

Idk, I doubt that my Mom could have named a Madonna song in the 80s. If anything, I've heard the argument made that you now hear pop hits where you used to hear Muzak, which sounds OTM to me.

i thought more acts were playing arena shows than ever before. there was a whole thread where we talked about weird bands playing big venues.

Ghost played arenas. the place in Portland has people named Lauren Daigle, Dermot Kennedy and Brantley Gilbert coming through.

I read around the time of the Swift concert I saw a couple months ago here in Paris that she was playing with the idea of touring smaller venues this time, like arenas or even theaters, rather than stadiums. Instead, she's playing European festivals this coming summer.

The main arena here has a bunch of French bands playing it, but as far as North American acts I see the Jonas Brothers, Lana Del Rey, Kiss and Slipknot. There's also Elton John, Nick Cave, Harry Styles, and Mika.

wow music is terrible

lol, there it is

there was a whole thread where we talked about weird bands playing big venues.

I just checked who is playing the local arena and wow, Half Moon Run, a band from whom I have heard one song but about whom I keep hearing from people who are 15-20 years than myself, are playing there in January. I had no idea they were arena sized.

I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

First, the basics: according to MBW’s number-crunching of Pollstar’s data from last year, the Top 100 global tours in H1 2018 turned over $2.81bn in gross sales.

In H1 2019, however, this half-year worldwide figure for the Top 100 tours stood at $2.06bn – falling by 26.8%, or $752m, year-on-year.

In other words, global live music industry ticket sales, on average, generated over $100m less per month in the first half of 2019 than they did in the equivalent period of 2018.

...

There was one obvious culprit for this perilous drop in revenues: the total volume of global ticket sales took a hammering in H1 2019.

Pollstar’s data from last year, analyzed by MBW, shows that 31.29m tickets were sold for the world’s Top 100 highest-grossing tours in H1 2018.

However, in the equivalent six months from this year, that half-year ticket sales number had fallen by over 9m, or 28.8%, to 22.28m tickets.

...

According to MBW’s analysis of the numbers, North America saw exactly the same declining trends as those which hit the globe in H1 2019.

For one thing, the total concert gross amongst the Top 100 tours in NA during the first six months of this year reached $1.55bn, down by a hefty $97m year-on-year.

Total ticket sales also fell significantly year-on-year. H1 2019 saw cumulative ticket sales of 16.9m, according to our calculations of Pollstar’s data.

This was down 2.2m on the equivalent six months in 2018 – and by a serious-looking 5.9m on the same period of 2017.

Then I remembered that we have another, bigger arena. City and Colour and Miranda Lambert are playing there.

xp

xxp That article is talking about a one-year decline, don’t think you can use it to extrapolate long-term trends.

Yeah, acc to the same source, concert revenue hit a record high in the first half of 2018 (the time period you are using as a reference), up 12% from the previous year. Most sources I see project overall growth in the area.

https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/global-concert-sales-hit-record-high-in-first-half-of-2018-but-so-do-average-ticket-prices/

acts coming to stadiums around here:

Luke Combs
Tool
Harry Styles
Cher
Chance the Rapper
The Misfits (!)
Billie Eilish
Celine Dion
Trans-Siberian Orchestra
The Lumineers
Camilla Cabello
Black Crowes
Kenny Chesney