New York Dolls

WHEN I SAY I’M IN LOVE YOU BEST BELIEVE I’M IN LOVE L-U-V

https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-29-2017/w4KX8Z.gif

Recommend the Arthur Kane documentary from a few years ago--the scene where David Johansen saunters godlike into a practice session (forget the context--I think it was a reunion between the two of them) is hilarious.

Yeah, that doc is 14 years old now(!) but it's great

Someone mentions charm upthread, and that's what sets the Dolls apart from Kiss, Aerosmith etc. Read the interviews from the 70s in NME etc and you can see how witty / provocative / "hip" they are.

WHEN I SAY I’M IN LOVE YOU BEST BELIEVE I’M IN LOVE L-U-V

a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain) at 2:03 8 Nov 19

The Dolls and Little Feat are the only bands I can think of offhand that have more reunion albums than original ones.

Mission of Burma

Gang of Four and The Buzzcocks too.

Dinosaur Jr original lineup as well.

Sometimes I impulsively buy cheap CDs for the car, even though I already have the vinyl. Bought a really good 26-song Lovin' Spoonful compilation a few days ago, along with the New York Dolls' Millennium Collection--2/$10.

The Dolls thing isn't bad. It does all right with the five songs from the first album, although I'd rather have "Subway Train" and "Lonely Planet Boy" than "Pills" and "Jet Boy" (not to say they aren't great). Not as well with the second--they omit both "Who Are the Mystery Girls?" and "Human Being," easily my two favourite, and include all three covers. There's also "Lone Star Queen," not on either album--think I have it on a bootleg.

Let me now stupidly wade into something I usually stay clear of: could they put their version of "Stranded in the Jungle" on an album today? Conceding that the originals were the work of African-Americans (always thought the song belonged to the Cadets--didn't know about the earlier Jayhawks version until now), and also that Johansen is given to campy theatricality all over both albums, his vocal on "Stranded" is kind of blackface, isn't it? I'm not suggesting at all that you'd ever try to erase it from history, and I know that he and they are paying tribute to a song they love. Made for uncomfortable listening yesterday, though.

(Checking back on this thread, I think the same thing is implied on a couple of posts.)

Haven't heard the Dolls' version in a while, or prev records ever, but the latter come from that era of wry, droll, cool (just a little bit distanced) vividly voiced, broad and clear, delivery of novelty r&b etc (the Coasters and all)---Johansen's performance is in that tradition, not so many years after its heyday.

Or at least, when I was listening pretty often, always heard it that way.

It sounds kind of blackface to me tbh.

So much American music comes through the brush, one way or another. It's not written to be taken seriously though; an attempt at doing it tastefully might be more offensive--if you're gonna do it at all... I thought it worked, as a tight, cartoony song and track, ironic if you want to take it that way, though racists could like it for the wrong reasons, as is too often the case.

I’ve never really cared for the song, in any of its versions; or understood why the Dolls — who wanted to avoid being seen as a “novelty act” — recorded and released it as the first single from their make-or-break 2nd album. But it must mean a lot to David Johansson, didn’t use the title for his autobiography?

Weird fact I just learned, the bass singer on The Cadets' version of the song was Will J. "Dub" Jones who later sang bass on "Yakety Yak" and "Charlie Brown" for The Coasters.

(xp sorry, I had that last detail wrong; Wikipedia sez DJ did include a live version on a 1982 solo album, though.)

You were close, that title was used for a biography of Jerry Nolan, I believe.

i will not have my enjoyment of this song sullied by performative anti-racism. this culture is suffering death by woke!

johnny thunders' swastika armband was dumb, i'll grant you that.

this culture is suffering death by woke!

I'm with you 100%. I don't really care for the song period--if I did, I likely wouldn't have posted. Which wouldn't be tacit approval, more like "ancient history, no need to bring it up."

I mainly remember liking the transitions from the "solemn" verse narrative to the frenetic chorus---and back again! Also recall that Johansen explained that he started out wanting to sing high---Byrds, Left Banke, Bealtes ballads---but as his voice changed, got settled into that rough baritone---but then he heard the Four Tops: " "Bernadette!" Hey, I can do that---"Bernadette!" So he worked with what he had, and always sounded (though I don't know if he mentioned this) like he was also influenced by Eric Burdon---couldn't really wail like EB on the chorus of "House of the Rising Sun," but that gruff blurt that Burdon was more known for---and he was sometimes taken as a dumbo bar band appropriator, although there were far worse---somebody in Rolling Stone said that the next Canned Heat album should be titled Yassuh Boss, because Bob The Bear Hite (not Al Wilson, who sounded like Skip James, eerie and deft); And Burdon kept finding his way to okay or better songs---incl. on Eric Is Here, arranged by Benny Golson and Horace Ott, jazz pros showing "horn rock" and brainy rock producers how to do it, without overdoing---and here Burdon adapted his sound to early covers of Randy Newman songs, other good stuff: still sounded like himself, but also, like, sensitive (enough).
So maybe Johansen eventually followed this example in his best solo work ("Frenchette," for inst), or even some of the more relaxed-larynx Dolls songs, like "Lonely Planet Boy." But when you've got that kind voice, and a big collection of old rock, r&b etc, it's tricky. Also if you come from that era, but not to let Justin Timberlake and other "tasteful" unoriginals off the hook.

kind *of* voice!

coasters is a great comparison. it reminds me a little of "shoppin' for clothes," which johansen has also covered -- a hapless but intrepid narrator who'll never have that jacket/girl but loves it/her more than anything, willing to jump out of the boiling pot, thumb down a whale, etc. it's a perfect song for the dolls to inhabit, with syl's sound effects, thunders' domination of that jungle riff, nolan's negotiation of the time shifts. for what it's worth it was written by an african american man and woman.

Best Dolls cover is There's Gonna Be a Showdown! That thing is incredible.

you'd best be at that dance down on 14th street, ya hear?

A friend tweeted this

Hearing that Sylvain Sylvain of the New York Dolls has passed. Nothing official yet but he’s been fighting cancer the last year.

Hoping it's not true.

It is. RIP.

:( RIP

I never had a sense of him like Thunders or David J. (or even Arthur Kane, after the documentary), but obviously he was crucial. A friend just told me we saw him once at the El Mocambo in Toronto, but honestly, I don't remember.

gutted

Even if it was *just* for keeping the Dolls in clothes & heels he is hall of fame ... everything I read he was v much their engine

what a loss :(

Love the Dolls - so much of my favorite music can be traced back to them.

RIP :(

From his FB page:

Sylvain Sylvain Mizrahi
Rest In Peace
February 14, 1951 ~ January 13, 2021

As most of you know, Sylvain battled cancer for the past two and 1/2 years. Though he fought it valiantly, yesterday he passed away from this disease. While we grieve his loss, we know that he is finally at peace and out of pain. Please crank up his music, light a candle, say a prayer and let’s send this beautiful doll on his way.

Please read this letter written for Syl by Lenny Kaye

SYL: An Appreciation

Lenny Kaye

Sylvain Sylvain, the heart and soul of the New York Dolls, bearer of the Teenage News, passed into his next astral incarnation on Wednesday, January 13, 2021.

Syl loved rock and roll. His onstage joy, his radiant smile as he chopped at his guitar, revealed the sense of wonder he must have felt at the age of 10, emigrating from his native Cairo with his family in 1961, the ship pulling into New York Harbor and seeing the Statue of Liberty for the first time.

It was he who looked across Lexington Ave. and saw the sign for the New York Doll hospital. Syl and a high school friend, Billy Murcia, were in the rag trade then, the aptly named Truth and Soul, handknit sweaters with a side of rockattitude. Hooking up with another classmate, John Genzale, and then, as bands will, Arthur Kane, and David Johansen, and Jerry Nolan, they became a quasar in the rock firmament; embodying trash, glam, garage-to-punk, the ambisexual affirmation of music played louder.

His role in the band was as lynchpin, keeping the revolving satellites of his bandmates in precision. Though he tried valiantly to keep the band going, in the end the Dolls’ moral fable overwhelmed them, not before seeding an influence that would engender many rock generations yet to come.

The New York Dolls heralded the future, made it easy to dance to. From the time I first saw their poster appear on the wall of Village Oldies in 1972, advertising a residency at the Mercer Hotel up the street, throughout their meteoric ascent and shooting star flame-out, the New York Dolls were the heated core of this music we hail, the band that makes you want to form a band.

Syl never stopped.

In his solo lifeline, he was welcomed all over the world, from England to Japan, but most of all the rock dens of New York City, which is where I caught up with him a couple of years ago at the Bowery Electric. Still Syl. His corkscrew curls, tireless bounce, exulting in living his dream, asking the crowd to sing along, and so we will. His twin names, mirrored, becomes us.

Thank you Sylvain x 2, for your heart, belief, and the way you whacked that E chord. Sleep Baby Doll.

Great story:

RIP New York Dolls legend Sylvain Sylvain.

He guest DJed at my club Stay Beautiful in 2004. He told me, 30 secs from the end of a track, he'd run out of songs. From then on, I frantically chucked on NYC punk/glam tunes while he announced them like Murray The K.

Unforgettable. pic.twitter.com/j237IBEkBT

— Simon Price (@simon_price01) January 15, 2021

<3

I'm so old I bought "Too Much Too Soon" as a cutout LP in a drug store when I was buying everything that looked loud. I remember as a dumb preteen thinking it was like a punk Aerosmith and I was kinda right; that was because of Sylvain Sylvain. Thanks to him for the riffs and attitude.

I remember when Too Much Too Soon was impossible to find on CD, not unless you were willing to pay an a$$-load of money for a used copy. (The debut was easy, they even sold it through BMG Music Club.) When I finally got it, I blasted it pretty much non-stop.

Later on Clinton Heylin revealed that he helped Hip-O put together a "complete sessions" box set like the Stooges did with Funhouse through Rhino Handmade, but the project was ultimately cancelled.

Sylvain's memoir is pretty great. Surprised not to see it mentioned already in.the existing thread.

the first club show i ever attended (with fake proof) was the dolls in february 1975 -- one of their last shows before johnny & jerry left. red patent leather days. they blessed me with "teenage news," which i'd never heard. i've never been quite the same. syl was the heart of the band. he lent them their pathos. you got the sense that he was the only member who internalized their greatness and tragedy in real time. a mensch. miss you, syl.

Sylvain only cowrote three songs on their first albums, but I would call "Frankenstein" their best (if atypically grandiose).

They must also be the most famous international band to play in my neighbourhood of Weston - a week in 1976 at a pub called the Queensbury Arms that was demolished decades ago.

I saw a Sylvain Sylvain gig in 98 that reminds the most glorious, joyful, life-affirming show I've ever seen and in a funny bit of pre-internet info dissemination, one of the "opening acts" was a 30 minute VHS highlight reel of all those Dolls clips that are on Youtube now, and I hadn't seen any of it and was it big a deal!

― chr1sb3singer, Friday, 8 November 2019 15:20 (one year ago) link

I think about this show still all the time, it was so fun, he was a burst of color and funny and happy and we all were drunk singing "TRASH! Pick it UP!" at the top of our lungs and he probably hand a bedazzled beret on and it was just incredible

RIP

a week in 1976 at a pub called the Queensbury Arms

God, I haven't heard that name uttered in decades. Never got there myself. In the part of this thread that's hidden, I mentioned a friend who saw the Dolls in the early '70s with Rush opening.

I remember when Too Much Too Soon was impossible to find on CD, not unless you were willing to pay an a$$-load of money for a used copy. (The debut was easy, they even sold it through BMG Music Club.)

Have long wondered what was up with that. One of my luckiest finds was a sealed TMTS at CD Warehouse in 2001. The first CD copy I'd seen, and possibly the only one I'd see for years. I had just thought it was kinda hard to find until Hip-O Select put out theirs, noting on their site it had been OOP for several years.

The Dolls on Don Kirshner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uZQ7lgJijk

Hadn't seen this before, a live & loud "Personality Crisis" on The Midnight Special.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP5ngHRuoTI

There's like five people up front who are into it, and everyone else is waiting for Argent. Also note the roadie playing bass over in the shadows because Kane's hand was messed up at the time.

lookin' fine on television.

I think both were out of print for about a decade starting in the late '70s (at least in Canada). I bought the first as a British import in 1980 or so; my copy of the second album is Japanese from around the same time. In Stranded, Christgau was writing about a 1977 British reissue of both albums as a double. (I have terrible luck trying to post photos and photo links the last while, so just the URL.)

https://images.eil.com/large_image/NEW_YORK_DOLLS_NEW%2BYORK%2BDOLLS-264269.jpg

Those kids upfront screaming along on the Midnight Special are the real heroes

Shouts to Johnny T for even with 2-3" of teased hair and 3-4" of stacked heels is still being very obviously short

he was 3 inches taller than Syd
Johnny was 5’7 and Syd was 5’4

idk why i felt the need to explain that

In Stranded, Christgau was writing about a 1977 British reissue of both albums as a double

That's the Dolls vinyl I have. Interesting liner notes making no bones about how drugs & alcohol tore the band apart.

Both albums appeared on CD in the late '80s, but for reasons unknown the TMTS disc went out of print in the states sometime in the '90s I guess, and has had a weird reissue history since (Hip-O Select's limited/not limited online edition in the mid-'00s, and a remastered limited edition mini-LP from Culture Factory in the '10s).

Meanwhile the s/t stayed available as a budget title. I got one for a friend at Fry's for $5 about 5-6 years ago.