New York Dolls

Only know the version of “Great Big Kiss” from “So Alone.”

Argh. I shouldn’t bother with the quotes and italics, So Alone.

That's great--you're the second person I know who saw them first time around.

to be honest, arthur was m.i.a. that night, with their roadie peter jordan filling in on bass. though that wasn't an uncommon occurrence, from what i understand. this site lists three shows in february 1975 at long island's my father's place club. it was one of them, most likely. we were chaperoned by my buddy's older brother. i even remember the conversation i had with him afterward. me: "well they never claimed they could play their instruments." him: "i'm glad they don't claim that!"
http://www.fromthearchives.com/nyd/chronology.html

i also saw the "dollettes" a couple of times, which was johansen and syl carrying on with some of david's staten island cronies, working out the material that later became his first solo album. those were great fun because they'd through just about anything at the wall.

*throw*

Supposedly Peter Jordan played on the albums as well, at least some of the time.

https://gothamist.com/arts-entertainment/new-york-doll-turned-doorman

Not really sure about the recordings though. Maybe it was mostly or all Arthur.

peter jordan's band stumblebunny wasn't half bad either.

https://stumblebunny.bandcamp.com/album/while-you-were-out

"Lonely Planet Boy" and "You Can't Throw Your Arms Around a Memory" are pretty much the same song, aren't they?

i think to johnny thunders a "ballad" meant playing d and d-suspended chords slowly. that's just what it was. the reformed dolls used to segue from one to the other. i always thought it nice that they did a post-dolls thunders tune.

So it would seem.

I gotta ask you one question.

To me they are the better, fuckup version Kiss. Shitty songs, a lot of terrible recording & not-great cohesion, and a Look. But NYD make you kinda love them for all that whereas Kiss repels it more and more over time. NYD have an endearing likeability that draws you in despite their terribleness & idk, give off this wacky (junkie) musketeers vibe that Kiss doesnt have. NYD feel like they are all still kids performing in front of their bedroom mirrors, living out a rocknroll fantasy, but playing it out in real life as adults with very few real-world concessions

This is so dead on, also (& I'm gonna get roasted for this) but I feel this same way abt Aerosmith "hey what if the New York Dolls were more competent and totally charmless?"

I saw a Sylvain Sylvain gig in 98 that reminds the most glorious, joyful, life-affirming show I've ever seen and in a funny bit of pre-internet info dissemination, one of the "opening acts" was a 30 minute VHS highlight reel of all those Dolls clips that are on Youtube now, and I hadn't seen any of it and was it big a deal!

i saw the Musikladen video years ago, but i never saw this smokin' performance from long beach, '74 before

https://youtu.be/-uZQ7lgJijk

Love everything on the first two albums. And I remember listening to the "reunion" 3rd album once and being shocked that it wasn't awful or disappointing.

And VG OTMFM.

just realised I've never actually heard the 1st reunion album. I thought the 2nd one was pretty awful. The 3rd one's OK though.

well if i've got to dream, dontcha know that im a human bein'

speaking of which, anyone know how syl is doing? there was a gofundme for his cancer treatments.

I didn't even realize they'd made three albums after they reunited. I've only heard the first of those (One Day It Will Please Us to Remember Even This).

The Dolls and Little Feat are the only bands I can think of offhand that have more reunion albums than original ones.

I guess the Allmans and Skynyrd too.

WHEN I SAY I’M IN LOVE YOU BEST BELIEVE I’M IN LOVE L-U-V

https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-29-2017/w4KX8Z.gif

Recommend the Arthur Kane documentary from a few years ago--the scene where David Johansen saunters godlike into a practice session (forget the context--I think it was a reunion between the two of them) is hilarious.

Yeah, that doc is 14 years old now(!) but it's great

Someone mentions charm upthread, and that's what sets the Dolls apart from Kiss, Aerosmith etc. Read the interviews from the 70s in NME etc and you can see how witty / provocative / "hip" they are.

WHEN I SAY I’M IN LOVE YOU BEST BELIEVE I’M IN LOVE L-U-V

a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain) at 2:03 8 Nov 19

The Dolls and Little Feat are the only bands I can think of offhand that have more reunion albums than original ones.

Mission of Burma

Gang of Four and The Buzzcocks too.

Dinosaur Jr original lineup as well.

Sometimes I impulsively buy cheap CDs for the car, even though I already have the vinyl. Bought a really good 26-song Lovin' Spoonful compilation a few days ago, along with the New York Dolls' Millennium Collection--2/$10.

The Dolls thing isn't bad. It does all right with the five songs from the first album, although I'd rather have "Subway Train" and "Lonely Planet Boy" than "Pills" and "Jet Boy" (not to say they aren't great). Not as well with the second--they omit both "Who Are the Mystery Girls?" and "Human Being," easily my two favourite, and include all three covers. There's also "Lone Star Queen," not on either album--think I have it on a bootleg.

Let me now stupidly wade into something I usually stay clear of: could they put their version of "Stranded in the Jungle" on an album today? Conceding that the originals were the work of African-Americans (always thought the song belonged to the Cadets--didn't know about the earlier Jayhawks version until now), and also that Johansen is given to campy theatricality all over both albums, his vocal on "Stranded" is kind of blackface, isn't it? I'm not suggesting at all that you'd ever try to erase it from history, and I know that he and they are paying tribute to a song they love. Made for uncomfortable listening yesterday, though.

(Checking back on this thread, I think the same thing is implied on a couple of posts.)

Haven't heard the Dolls' version in a while, or prev records ever, but the latter come from that era of wry, droll, cool (just a little bit distanced) vividly voiced, broad and clear, delivery of novelty r&b etc (the Coasters and all)---Johansen's performance is in that tradition, not so many years after its heyday.

Or at least, when I was listening pretty often, always heard it that way.

It sounds kind of blackface to me tbh.

So much American music comes through the brush, one way or another. It's not written to be taken seriously though; an attempt at doing it tastefully might be more offensive--if you're gonna do it at all... I thought it worked, as a tight, cartoony song and track, ironic if you want to take it that way, though racists could like it for the wrong reasons, as is too often the case.

I’ve never really cared for the song, in any of its versions; or understood why the Dolls — who wanted to avoid being seen as a “novelty act” — recorded and released it as the first single from their make-or-break 2nd album. But it must mean a lot to David Johansson, didn’t use the title for his autobiography?

Weird fact I just learned, the bass singer on The Cadets' version of the song was Will J. "Dub" Jones who later sang bass on "Yakety Yak" and "Charlie Brown" for The Coasters.

(xp sorry, I had that last detail wrong; Wikipedia sez DJ did include a live version on a 1982 solo album, though.)

You were close, that title was used for a biography of Jerry Nolan, I believe.

i will not have my enjoyment of this song sullied by performative anti-racism. this culture is suffering death by woke!

johnny thunders' swastika armband was dumb, i'll grant you that.

this culture is suffering death by woke!

I'm with you 100%. I don't really care for the song period--if I did, I likely wouldn't have posted. Which wouldn't be tacit approval, more like "ancient history, no need to bring it up."

I mainly remember liking the transitions from the "solemn" verse narrative to the frenetic chorus---and back again! Also recall that Johansen explained that he started out wanting to sing high---Byrds, Left Banke, Bealtes ballads---but as his voice changed, got settled into that rough baritone---but then he heard the Four Tops: " "Bernadette!" Hey, I can do that---"Bernadette!" So he worked with what he had, and always sounded (though I don't know if he mentioned this) like he was also influenced by Eric Burdon---couldn't really wail like EB on the chorus of "House of the Rising Sun," but that gruff blurt that Burdon was more known for---and he was sometimes taken as a dumbo bar band appropriator, although there were far worse---somebody in Rolling Stone said that the next Canned Heat album should be titled Yassuh Boss, because Bob The Bear Hite (not Al Wilson, who sounded like Skip James, eerie and deft); And Burdon kept finding his way to okay or better songs---incl. on Eric Is Here, arranged by Benny Golson and Horace Ott, jazz pros showing "horn rock" and brainy rock producers how to do it, without overdoing---and here Burdon adapted his sound to early covers of Randy Newman songs, other good stuff: still sounded like himself, but also, like, sensitive (enough).
So maybe Johansen eventually followed this example in his best solo work ("Frenchette," for inst), or even some of the more relaxed-larynx Dolls songs, like "Lonely Planet Boy." But when you've got that kind voice, and a big collection of old rock, r&b etc, it's tricky. Also if you come from that era, but not to let Justin Timberlake and other "tasteful" unoriginals off the hook.

kind *of* voice!

coasters is a great comparison. it reminds me a little of "shoppin' for clothes," which johansen has also covered -- a hapless but intrepid narrator who'll never have that jacket/girl but loves it/her more than anything, willing to jump out of the boiling pot, thumb down a whale, etc. it's a perfect song for the dolls to inhabit, with syl's sound effects, thunders' domination of that jungle riff, nolan's negotiation of the time shifts. for what it's worth it was written by an african american man and woman.

Best Dolls cover is There's Gonna Be a Showdown! That thing is incredible.

you'd best be at that dance down on 14th street, ya hear?

A friend tweeted this

Hearing that Sylvain Sylvain of the New York Dolls has passed. Nothing official yet but he’s been fighting cancer the last year.

Hoping it's not true.

It is. RIP.

:( RIP

I never had a sense of him like Thunders or David J. (or even Arthur Kane, after the documentary), but obviously he was crucial. A friend just told me we saw him once at the El Mocambo in Toronto, but honestly, I don't remember.

gutted

Even if it was *just* for keeping the Dolls in clothes & heels he is hall of fame ... everything I read he was v much their engine

what a loss :(