New York Dolls

my love for this band knows no bounds. i saw them when i was 17, which might have something to do with it. in their red patent leather phase, shortly before they split. i love johansen's goofy covers, love the way johnny thunders guitar acts like a greek chorus to the lyrics. love how the lyrics don't exactly parse but sound so cool. oh, check this out -- i got this from the man himself: "well we can't take her this week, and her friends don't want another speech, hoping for her that someday they'll hear what she's gotta say." true quote from steve conte to johansen: "THAT's what you're saying?!?"

^great post!

The first David Johansen album is a cleaner Dolls record, down to the co-writes. I recommend it to skeptics.

That's great--you're the second person I know who saw them first time around. (I mean, the other person I really do know.) He saw them in '73 or '74, I think at Toronto's Victory Burlesque Theatre...with Rush opening! Close as I got was seeing Johnny Thunders in '86 or '87.

First album, 10/10; second, 8 or 9/10.

for some reason i really enjoy most of the songs on the debut if i hear them in isolation, but it's not an album i ever feel like hearing all the way through. "lookin' for a kiss" sounds delightful on almost any playlist, but somehow i get tired of their sound in a way i don't with, say, the velvets or the stooges or even the ramones. i think my main issue is how sludgy the album's always sounded to me -- what i mainly enjoy is david johansen's singing.

Does this thread have a mention of Quintano’s School for Young Professionals yet?

for some reason i really enjoy most of the songs on the debut if i hear them in isolation, but it's not an album i ever feel like hearing all the way through

Yes! I always wanna hear "Trash," "Frankenstein," "Lookin' for a Kiss," etc, but I don't wanna stream or play the album.

New York Dolls are great
Aesthetically their songs are “crap” I guess - they arent a finesse band by any means. But I dunno if that’s really what you seek out the Dolls for. Fun! Danger! Excitement! All their songs from the first 2 albums sound like something is on the verge of breaking, shorting out, exploding etc - like you have 45 minutes to make this record or the studio will self destruct

To me they are the better, fuckup version Kiss. Shitty songs, a lot of terrible recording & not-great cohesion, and a Look. But NYD make you kinda love them for all that whereas Kiss repels it more and more over time. NYD have an endearing likeability that draws you in despite their terribleness & idk, give off this wacky (junkie) musketeers vibe that Kiss doesnt have. NYD feel like they are all still kids performing in front of their bedroom mirrors, living out a rocknroll fantasy, but playing it out in real life as adults with very few real-world concessions

Can you tell that I love them? I LOVE THEM

Trash is all time and if they only existed to do that it was worth it

Veg with THE REAL TALK.

I DJ occasionally at a '70s Rock night, so I've been picking up at lot of favorites that I didn't previously have on vinyl. Back around the first of the year I scored a nice copy of the Dolls twofer Mercury put out back in the day to cash in on Punk. I hadn't listened to them in a while, but as soon as the needle dropped, I remembered just how much I'd loved them. That was a good night.

They had this goofy junkie joie de vivre, even in wonderful nightmares like "Frankenstein". The Dolls and Shadow Morton were a match made in Heaven on TMTS; between it and that one Mott single, it's a shame he didn't work with more Glam artists. I love their covers too, they were great at picking stuff that fit right in with their originals (and in pretty much every case, I discovered the originals through the Dolls' versions).

VG and C.G/M otm

I love pretty much all of the 1st 2 albums.

2nd album gets maligned a bit but I think only because the first album is so good - an album with Who Are The Mystery Girls, Puss N Boots and Babylon on it can't be that bad surely

then there's their cover of Great Big Kiss. there's a few versions of that around, but there's one which sounds like a proper studio version, not just a sloppy demo, but it took me ages to track down where that came from - there are lots of NYD outtake/demo compilations out there, none of which have that version on - but I eventually found it on the Night Of The Living Dolls compilation LP

Slightly prefer the second album.

Like when people refer to it as In Too Much Too Soon.

Only know the version of “Great Big Kiss” from “So Alone.”

Argh. I shouldn’t bother with the quotes and italics, So Alone.

That's great--you're the second person I know who saw them first time around.

to be honest, arthur was m.i.a. that night, with their roadie peter jordan filling in on bass. though that wasn't an uncommon occurrence, from what i understand. this site lists three shows in february 1975 at long island's my father's place club. it was one of them, most likely. we were chaperoned by my buddy's older brother. i even remember the conversation i had with him afterward. me: "well they never claimed they could play their instruments." him: "i'm glad they don't claim that!"
http://www.fromthearchives.com/nyd/chronology.html

i also saw the "dollettes" a couple of times, which was johansen and syl carrying on with some of david's staten island cronies, working out the material that later became his first solo album. those were great fun because they'd through just about anything at the wall.

*throw*

Supposedly Peter Jordan played on the albums as well, at least some of the time.

https://gothamist.com/arts-entertainment/new-york-doll-turned-doorman

Not really sure about the recordings though. Maybe it was mostly or all Arthur.

peter jordan's band stumblebunny wasn't half bad either.

https://stumblebunny.bandcamp.com/album/while-you-were-out

"Lonely Planet Boy" and "You Can't Throw Your Arms Around a Memory" are pretty much the same song, aren't they?

i think to johnny thunders a "ballad" meant playing d and d-suspended chords slowly. that's just what it was. the reformed dolls used to segue from one to the other. i always thought it nice that they did a post-dolls thunders tune.

So it would seem.

I gotta ask you one question.

To me they are the better, fuckup version Kiss. Shitty songs, a lot of terrible recording & not-great cohesion, and a Look. But NYD make you kinda love them for all that whereas Kiss repels it more and more over time. NYD have an endearing likeability that draws you in despite their terribleness & idk, give off this wacky (junkie) musketeers vibe that Kiss doesnt have. NYD feel like they are all still kids performing in front of their bedroom mirrors, living out a rocknroll fantasy, but playing it out in real life as adults with very few real-world concessions

This is so dead on, also (& I'm gonna get roasted for this) but I feel this same way abt Aerosmith "hey what if the New York Dolls were more competent and totally charmless?"

I saw a Sylvain Sylvain gig in 98 that reminds the most glorious, joyful, life-affirming show I've ever seen and in a funny bit of pre-internet info dissemination, one of the "opening acts" was a 30 minute VHS highlight reel of all those Dolls clips that are on Youtube now, and I hadn't seen any of it and was it big a deal!

i saw the Musikladen video years ago, but i never saw this smokin' performance from long beach, '74 before

https://youtu.be/-uZQ7lgJijk

Love everything on the first two albums. And I remember listening to the "reunion" 3rd album once and being shocked that it wasn't awful or disappointing.

And VG OTMFM.

just realised I've never actually heard the 1st reunion album. I thought the 2nd one was pretty awful. The 3rd one's OK though.

well if i've got to dream, dontcha know that im a human bein'

speaking of which, anyone know how syl is doing? there was a gofundme for his cancer treatments.

I didn't even realize they'd made three albums after they reunited. I've only heard the first of those (One Day It Will Please Us to Remember Even This).

The Dolls and Little Feat are the only bands I can think of offhand that have more reunion albums than original ones.

I guess the Allmans and Skynyrd too.

WHEN I SAY I’M IN LOVE YOU BEST BELIEVE I’M IN LOVE L-U-V

https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-29-2017/w4KX8Z.gif

Recommend the Arthur Kane documentary from a few years ago--the scene where David Johansen saunters godlike into a practice session (forget the context--I think it was a reunion between the two of them) is hilarious.

Yeah, that doc is 14 years old now(!) but it's great

Someone mentions charm upthread, and that's what sets the Dolls apart from Kiss, Aerosmith etc. Read the interviews from the 70s in NME etc and you can see how witty / provocative / "hip" they are.

WHEN I SAY I’M IN LOVE YOU BEST BELIEVE I’M IN LOVE L-U-V

a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain) at 2:03 8 Nov 19

The Dolls and Little Feat are the only bands I can think of offhand that have more reunion albums than original ones.

Mission of Burma

Gang of Four and The Buzzcocks too.

Dinosaur Jr original lineup as well.

Sometimes I impulsively buy cheap CDs for the car, even though I already have the vinyl. Bought a really good 26-song Lovin' Spoonful compilation a few days ago, along with the New York Dolls' Millennium Collection--2/$10.

The Dolls thing isn't bad. It does all right with the five songs from the first album, although I'd rather have "Subway Train" and "Lonely Planet Boy" than "Pills" and "Jet Boy" (not to say they aren't great). Not as well with the second--they omit both "Who Are the Mystery Girls?" and "Human Being," easily my two favourite, and include all three covers. There's also "Lone Star Queen," not on either album--think I have it on a bootleg.

Let me now stupidly wade into something I usually stay clear of: could they put their version of "Stranded in the Jungle" on an album today? Conceding that the originals were the work of African-Americans (always thought the song belonged to the Cadets--didn't know about the earlier Jayhawks version until now), and also that Johansen is given to campy theatricality all over both albums, his vocal on "Stranded" is kind of blackface, isn't it? I'm not suggesting at all that you'd ever try to erase it from history, and I know that he and they are paying tribute to a song they love. Made for uncomfortable listening yesterday, though.

(Checking back on this thread, I think the same thing is implied on a couple of posts.)

Haven't heard the Dolls' version in a while, or prev records ever, but the latter come from that era of wry, droll, cool (just a little bit distanced) vividly voiced, broad and clear, delivery of novelty r&b etc (the Coasters and all)---Johansen's performance is in that tradition, not so many years after its heyday.

Or at least, when I was listening pretty often, always heard it that way.

It sounds kind of blackface to me tbh.

So much American music comes through the brush, one way or another. It's not written to be taken seriously though; an attempt at doing it tastefully might be more offensive--if you're gonna do it at all... I thought it worked, as a tight, cartoony song and track, ironic if you want to take it that way, though racists could like it for the wrong reasons, as is too often the case.

I’ve never really cared for the song, in any of its versions; or understood why the Dolls — who wanted to avoid being seen as a “novelty act” — recorded and released it as the first single from their make-or-break 2nd album. But it must mean a lot to David Johansson, didn’t use the title for his autobiography?

Weird fact I just learned, the bass singer on The Cadets' version of the song was Will J. "Dub" Jones who later sang bass on "Yakety Yak" and "Charlie Brown" for The Coasters.

(xp sorry, I had that last detail wrong; Wikipedia sez DJ did include a live version on a 1982 solo album, though.)