A Thread about the film JFK

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that’s precisely the point of both brothers, there’s more to this than you could dream

omar little, Tuesday, 5 November 2019 20:45 (four years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Another year he's dead.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 22 November 2019 20:02 (four years ago) link

They should've given him a medal for starting this thread!

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 22 November 2019 20:02 (four years ago) link

Camelot in smithereens! *drip drip drip* I'll drink to that.

temporarily embarrassed thousandaire (Eric H.), Friday, 22 November 2019 20:04 (four years ago) link

We've all become Hamlets in our country, children of a slain father-leader...whose killers still possess the throne.

omar little, Friday, 22 November 2019 21:00 (four years ago) link

Today 's a Friday too. We can relive it in real time.

pplains, Saturday, 23 November 2019 01:27 (four years ago) link

whaddya mean you're gonna put it in a book

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 23 November 2019 01:30 (four years ago) link

and all of this came under the control of General Y!

difficult listening hour, Saturday, 23 November 2019 01:33 (four years ago) link

Dulles, by the way, was General Y's benefactor...

omar little, Saturday, 23 November 2019 01:36 (four years ago) link

Very, very few people know about this, ok

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 23 November 2019 01:40 (four years ago) link

November 22, a day that shall live in rapidly fading infamy.

A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 23 November 2019 01:42 (four years ago) link

X would do just tweet it today and everyone would ignore it after a week

@xCIA1964

Thread: Everything I'll say is classified top secret.
I was a soldier. Two wars. A secret Pentagon guy, supplying the hardware: Planes, bullets, rifles for what we call "Black Operations. " Black Ops. Assassinations. Coups d'etat, rigging elections, propaganda, psych warfare.

omar little, Saturday, 23 November 2019 01:46 (four years ago) link

And I knew Allen Dulles very well. I briefed him many a time in his house. He was also General Y's benefactor. But for the life of me I still can't figure out why Dulles was appointed to investigate Kennedy's death. The man who had fired him.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 23 November 2019 01:49 (four years ago) link

just visited my folks in dallas and yesterday we went to the book depository museum and argued about the whole thing and before i knew it i was cribbing from this movie: “it was a turkey shoot” “they heard ECHOES!” “you would’ve felt an army presence on the streets that day!!” and finally “i won't have any more ultimatums put to me, mother”

orifex, Monday, 25 November 2019 23:23 (four years ago) link

Must've been a helluva weekend to visit the Sixth Floor.

pplains, Tuesday, 26 November 2019 01:31 (four years ago) link

Some cranberry sauce and stuffing spilling out and a torn-up turkey....perfect time for a jfk conversation.

omar little, Tuesday, 26 November 2019 01:35 (four years ago) link

you know i don't like these tribal rituals

difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 26 November 2019 03:17 (four years ago) link

having finished the Summers book awhile back, what i appreciated about it was how he simply lays out all the information he believes to be truthful or believable, and doesn't really buy into any one theory specifically. he leans hard on the mob/disgruntled Cuban exiles aspect, hinting at both possibilities linked to those groups: that Oswald was directly involved, or wound up trapped in a vise by others.

omar little, Thursday, 28 November 2019 00:33 (four years ago) link

I love how much Scorsese is just straight up trollling in this scene. https://t.co/TApD2d822C

— Peter Labuza (@labuzamovies) November 27, 2019

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 28 November 2019 00:37 (four years ago) link

FUCK YEAH

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 28 November 2019 04:00 (four years ago) link

one month passes...

- testify

- me

- testify

- lol no chance in hell

orifex, Wednesday, 22 January 2020 08:01 (four years ago) link

If they can kill the president of the United States, do you think they're gonna think twice about a two-bit showgirl like me?

I Heard You Ain't HOOS's (Eric H.), Wednesday, 22 January 2020 13:42 (four years ago) link

I just rewatched last weekend. Everything everyone said is correct.

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Wednesday, 22 January 2020 13:44 (four years ago) link

fuck yeah!

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 22 January 2020 13:55 (four years ago) link

Ain't got no reason to LAH to ya, I'm already IN jail!

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 22 January 2020 13:55 (four years ago) link

Pretty flowery for Dave Ferrie.

I Heard You Ain't HOOS's (Eric H.), Wednesday, 22 January 2020 14:12 (four years ago) link

We're way overdue another crack at hitting this level of dreamy mania with a similarly stacked cast. My body is ready for QAnon.

bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Wednesday, 22 January 2020 14:20 (four years ago) link

i dreamt last night that the cause of jfk's assassination was bob-a-job week

― mark s (mark s), Wednesday, October 15, 2003 5:52 PM (fifteen years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

still the only good theory imo

― mark s, Friday, 17 May 2019 15:02 (eight months ago) bookmarkflaglink

don't make me tap the sign

mark s, Wednesday, 22 January 2020 14:23 (four years ago) link

Maybe Shaw is an agent. I don't know. But as a covert operator, he is wide open for blackmail because of his ho-mo-sex-u-ality.

omar little, Wednesday, 22 January 2020 14:33 (four years ago) link

two months pass...

been playing a lot of quarantine playstation and the other day both my controllers died and i was genuinely upset and whispered: "both of them, both brothers?"

orifex, Friday, 3 April 2020 15:28 (four years ago) link

ahahaha

brechtian social distancing (Simon H.), Friday, 3 April 2020 15:30 (four years ago) link

nice

☮️ (peace, man), Friday, 3 April 2020 15:58 (four years ago) link

two weeks pass...

ECHOES

you heard ECHOES

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 20 April 2020 19:56 (three years ago) link

one year passes...

Kennedy's as dead as that crab meat, the government's alive and breathing. You gonna line up with a dead man, Jimbo?

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 30 May 2021 00:40 (two years ago) link

Willie O'Keefe : You don't know shit 'cause you've never been fucked in the ass!

sleeve, Sunday, 30 May 2021 00:44 (two years ago) link

And I knew Allen Dulles very well. I briefed him many a time in his house. He was also General Y's benefactor. But for the life of me I still can't figure out why Dulles was appointed to investigate Kennedy's death. The man who had fired him.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, November 22, 2019

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 30 May 2021 02:47 (two years ago) link

Sutherland’s my new fave on todays rewatch

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 30 May 2021 03:39 (two years ago) link

Wise bunch of birds…

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 30 May 2021 04:35 (two years ago) link

Worth checking out the *alternate* versions of the Sutherland scene, originally it was two different sections of the film; the second half of his monolgue was the film's last scene and he (and Costner) were made-up to look older. Annoyingly the Stone commentary track is all over the version on YouTube but it's better than nowt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glfTYMH59lk

piscesx, Sunday, 30 May 2021 20:15 (two years ago) link

three months pass...

i'm watching this for the first time since it came out. since it was 3 hours and i would have been 8 or so at the time, this makes it a movie i would have went to with my dad, who was not really a movie guy. more of an action movies + braveheart kind of guy. anyway, makes me think he really wanted to see it, i guess.

joe pesci's southern accent is _killing me_

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 7 September 2021 20:08 (two years ago) link

wise buncha birds

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 September 2021 20:17 (two years ago) link

one month passes...

very very few people know about this alright

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 1 November 2021 16:28 (two years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Thinking about Kevin Costner JFK anime glasses pic.twitter.com/XdEDPGsug2

— christian (@speederaserhead) November 27, 2020

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 23 November 2021 10:40 (two years ago) link

is Karl still watching it

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 23 November 2021 10:54 (two years ago) link

Love how this is being blamed for the bad things in the US.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/jfk-oliver-stone-conspiracy-theory-russian-disinformation-1260223/

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 23 November 2021 23:15 (two years ago) link

paywalled for me :(

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 23 November 2021 23:18 (two years ago) link

paywalled for you? or hidden from you deliberately by the fbi?

just staying (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 23 November 2021 23:21 (two years ago) link

Oliver Stone once made brilliant movies like Platoon, which won Oscars for best picture and best director. These days, he’s a tinfoil-hatted fabricator. His new documentary — JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass, premiering on Showtime on, you guessed it, Nov. 22 — is rooted in a big lie. It comes 30 years after the premiere of JFK, a film unrivaled in the annals of American cinematic propaganda. Both are based on the undying delusion that President Kennedy was murdered by the Deep State: The Central Intelligence Agency, backed by the military-industrial complex.

Do you believe that the CIA killed JFK? Millions of Americans suspect so. Let me ask you, then: Why do they believe it?

The tale can be traced to a Russian disinformation operation. It came from the same arsenal of political warfare that convinced half the world that the U.S. Army created AIDS. The one that monkey-wrenched the 2016 election for Donald Trump. The one now flooding the internet with deadly lies about the coronavirus and vaccines. The goals of these campaigns were one and the same: to divide Americans, to pour salt in our self-inflicted wounds, and ultimately to convince you that there is no truth. That crackpot fantasies are cold hard realities. That “conspiracy theories are now conspiracy facts,” as Stone proclaims in JFK Revisited.

Disinformation works best when it contains a kernel of truth. And, in truth, the Kennedy assassination is the black hole of American history. It has sucked better minds than Stone’s down into darkness. It has taught generations of Americans to be highly skeptical of the Official Government Version of events. It made the grassy knoll our town commons.

But what you believe about it boils down to this: Either Lee Harvey Oswald, trained by the United States Marines as a sharpshooter before he defected to the Soviet Union, got off a million-to-one shot in Dallas. He acted alone. Or he was an instrument of a conspiracy so immense that it staggers the mind.

As the new documentary opens, Stone paces down Dealey Plaza in Dallas, where President Kennedy was killed, the same place where QAnon crazies gathered recently to await the miraculous resurrection of JFK Jr. and the divine reinauguration of Trump. The director promises his audience that he is about to solve the murder mystery, to “piece together what really happened that day and discover the reasons why.”

Brace yourself: he doesn’t.

The dark beast of JFK Revisited is Allen Dulles, a founding father of the CIA and its director from February 1953 to November 1961. I know a fair amount about Dulles; my history of the CIA, Legacy of Ashes, lays a multitude of sins at his feet. Dulles often grievously misled Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy. He oversaw CIA coups in Iran and Guatemala which ushered in dictatorships. His top officers tried to kill Fidel Castro, enlisting the Mafia. He blithely convinced JFK to carry out the disastrous invasion of Cuba at the Bay of Pigs in April 1961, which was his downfall as Director of Central Intelligence.

Stone pegs Dulles as a presiding genius of the plot against the president. To begin building this case, he tells us that Dulles and the CIA backed a failed military coup aimed at assassinating President Charles de Gaulle of France. That’s another lie spun by Moscow.

Like the cold-war CIA, the KGB paid editors and reporters around the world to print stories that could advance the Kremlin’s international agendas. In the late 1950’s, it created a directorate to undermine America. Department D — D as in dezinformatsiya — aimed to bend and shape public opinion, and above all to defame the United States. The Department of Disinformation was the world’s first industrial factory of fake news.

A KGB-scripted story about the CIA’s plot to kill De Gaulle first appeared in a daily newspaper, Paese Sera, published in Rome and backed by the Italian Communist Party, a few days after the Bay of Pigs. It was republished in Moscow by the Soviet party organ, Pravda; then in France, and finally across the globe. That was, and is, the M.O. of Russian disinformation operations: start a fire, fan the flames, and blow the smoke around the world.

Six years later, Paese Sera planted the seed that flowered into JFK. And therein lies a tale. (One first told in 2001 by the historian Max Holland in The Wilson Quarterly, a now-defunct political science journal.)

On March 1, 1967, the New Orleans district attorney, Jim Garrison, arrested Clay Shaw, the director of the city’s International Trade Mart and a somewhat-closeted gay man, and charged him with a central role in a conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy. The D.A. told reporters that what happened in Dallas had been “a homosexual thrill-killing.” Three days later, Paese Sera named Shaw as a conduit for CIA funds for espionage and dirty tricks in Rome. The story, crafted by the KGB, ricocheted around the world, landing in New York on the front page of a New Left weekly, the National Guardian, on March 18.

Garrison seized upon it. He fed the falsehood to a friendly newspaper reporter in New Orleans and it landed on page one. He told the world that Shaw was a longtime CIA operative. (He wasn’t, though he had been a casual part-time contact on questions of commerce, one among some 150,000 Americans who volunteered information to the cold-war CIA.) The prosecutor then doubled down. He proclaimed that the CIA had plotted to kill Kennedy and then covered up the conspiracy, that Oswald had been under its control, that the agency was “infinitely more powerful than the Gestapo,” and that it had masterminded a coup d’etat in America in the name of anticommunism.

On Feb. 6, 1969, Garrison put Clay Shaw on trial. His witnesses were a parade of perjurers from the seamier quarters of New Orleans. He presented no evidence tying the CIA to his case. But in his summation, he asked the jurors to strike a righteous blow against the Deep State’s “murder of the truth.” They took 54 minutes to acquit.

Garrison’s tragicomedy had two lasting effects on the United States. The first was immediate: After he announced his charges, the number of Americans who believed that there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy skyrocketed. A majority still believe it. The second took 20 years.

Garrison spent a decade turning his case into a book called On The Trail Of The Assassins: One Man’s Quest to Solve the Murder of President Kennedy. The co-conspirators in this opus included the CIA, the FBI, the Dallas police department, the Warren Commission, the Secret Service, anti-Castro Cubans, the United States Army, and the Navy pathologists who autopsied JFK. Fifteen publishers rejected it until it was picked up by William Schaap and Ellen Ray at Sheridan Square Press in 1988. (The couple had worked with Phillip Agee, a CIA defector, publishing Covert Action Information Bulletin, a magazine devoted to exposing the Agency’s operations and officers. Agee received a strong assist from Russian intelligence, according to KGB records. No evidence whatsoever links Schaap and Ray, now both deceased, to the Russians.)

On The Trail Of The Assassins would prove to be a hit with the public. Shortly before its publication, as Schaap later recounted, “at a film festival in Havana, we ran into Oliver Stone. And Ellen said to him, ‘Have I got a property for you!’ Because we knew he was an assassination freak, we gave him an advance copy of the book…. Of course, Oliver Stone won’t admit to any of this!”

JFK and its new sequel are, with artistic embellishments, cinematic transcriptions of Jim Garrison’s delusions. The original movie convinced millions more Americans that the version of history wrought by Stone and Garrison was true. National surveys taken after JFK was released showed that three-quarters of those polled believed the CIA had murdered the President. And that, along with the end of the cold war, provoked Congress to begin declassifying millions of records relating to the assassination — a task that remains incomplete nearly three decades later. Both Trump and President Biden have delayed disclosures required under law, though a new set of documents is set to be unwrapped before Christmas.

I’ve spent half my life reporting, writing, and reading about the CIA and American intelligence. I remember the Kennedy assassination; I’ve studied the evidence. And I can’t tell you that there wasn’t a conspiracy. Maybe it was the Russians. Could have been the Cubans. Might have been the Mafia. Maybe there’s a mind-blowing bombshell in the still-classified archives of the government. But I seriously doubt it.

I can tell you for a fact that our democracy is suffocating under an avalanche of disinformation. Trump won the 2020 election! Covid vaccines are seeded with microchips! Democrats are blood-sucking pedophile communists! 9/11 was an inside job! Our body politic is being poisoned by lies. They stalk the land like brain-eating zombies. And we can’t seem to kill them.

We have a moral obligation to call bullshit when we see it. Especially when public figures promote lies for profit. Stone’s JFK films are fantasies. Conspiracy theories are not facts. They’re a kind of collective psychosis. And they’re driving our country down the road to hell.

In This Article: CIA, conspiracy theories, FBI, JFK, Oliver Stone

just staying (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 23 November 2021 23:22 (two years ago) link

the whole thing I never understood is the whole thing seems to be that the CIA killed him because he was a threat to the military industrial complex and US foreign policy which I never got the sense he was in any real way?

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 24 November 2021 00:13 (two years ago) link

fuck yeah!

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 24 November 2021 00:53 (two years ago) link


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