Recommend Martial Arts Movies

Holy Weapon - with Michelle Yeoh and Maggie Cheung. Persistently silly, lots of gender bending, rape jokes tossed around everywhere

― Robert Adam Gilmour

...yeah i feel like this is why i've kind of moved away from watching "classic" martial arts films

Just the rape jokes? (it's listed on Jing Wong's imdb as a trademark for him; he produced the Raped By An Angel series, the 4th film is subtitled Raper's Union)
or the silliness and gender bending too?

Sadly martial arts films aren't going to get better any time soon and I wouldn't be surprised if the rape jokes are still going.

Nice news for Region A viewers, a series from VCI
https://cityonfire.com/the-leg-fighters-blu-ray-vci-entertainment/

Somebody from Eureka said there's going to be a lot more martial arts next year. I'm wondering what's likely to be released because some things surprised me and I don't want to get Police Story 3 (wish it had been in the box set), Wing Chun, The Legend 1-2, Butterfly And Sword and Kung Fu Cult Master on dvd then have blurays turn up.
And apparently the Shaw Bros are coming back to 88 Films eventually.

nawww there's definitely a lot less rape jokes since the '90s

I thought it might be a possibility because Hong Kong seems to be the only place that still makes old school sex comedies (not that I care for them).

Next year from 88 Films: Heart Of Dragon (Sammo Hung/Jackie Chan) and Come Drink With Me.

The title is asinine, but Iron Fists and Kung Fu Kicks, now on Netflix, is a good documentary history of the genre.

I might go for it but I seen a really dreadful one earlier this year. Seems like Grady Hendrix is in this new one? Something I've never liked and makes me hesitant to see this new one, is when documentaries focus so much on the most popular things inspired by/based on the main subject matter.

The Eureka set of Sammo Hung films:

Iron Fisted Monk - I've seen few films that went to such lengths to make the villains so despicable. They kill a very old man, rape two girls (the film has become slightly notorious for this), bully children and headbutt an old lady. Film is far too long but mostly redeemed by the fights (for me at least). Probably included because it was Hung's directorial debut.

Magnificent Butcher - I was mistaken that this set is all directed by Hung, this one is actually by Yuen Woo Ping. Features a drunken laughing tramp with brilliant fighting skills, a bit like characters from other Ping and Hung films. I don't know if this is the role the director's dad was supposed to play because I've never seen him as a full-on drunk. It's fun enough but maybe it's just sitting in the shadow of similar films.

I cant recall which of these first two films contains the line "I hope your son is born with two arses, you'll be busy all day!", but that might be my favorite line from any martial arts film.

Eastern Condors - I've seen this one before, written about it upthread, my estimation of it has increased. For all the overly similar martial arts films, this is one of the less repeatable ones. Rumor says that Hung tried to fill this film with as much talent as possible so that Jackie Chan would have less people to choose from.
I still don't get why anyone says this is a mostly serious film, it's clearly still a comedy but with extra brutality and moments of seriousness.
Yuen Wah is particularly good in this; I didn't realise that this made him famous and that his role in Dragons Forever was essentially the same character, makes sense now in retrospect and I understand the temptation to re-use that character type.
Yuen Biao ripping off a snake's head was previously censored from export versions; some people are unhappy about this being fully uncut and it raises questions about films like Snake In The Eagle's Shadow (a cat fights a snake in the original). I like the idea of seing films as they were made/intended but I'm also worried less people will watch Snake In The Eagle's Shadow because that uncut scene is quite alarming (I'm guessing the snake's teeth were removed though, which is another cruelty but I think most of us are more worried about the cat).
Really unusual bonus feature: several of the stars performed a stage version of the story and we see excerpts from that.

I have to wonder about the film choices, were Knockabout and Progidal Son not chosen because Sammo is not in the lead role? When is Spooky Encounters coming? what films were available? Can we please have another Sammo set? But this set is a lovely unexpected gift. Must buy for region B viewers. Nice seeing all the original poster art too, older releases hardly ever shown you that.

A bit from the commentary: When Yuen Wah was cast in Australia with Hugh Jackman, he asked if he was going to fight Wolverine, then was told this wasn't an action film.

Checked around the Shaolin Chamber forum for best martial arts films of the last two decades and I'm a bit disappointed based on the ones I have seen, but I should check more out. Apparently Yuen Woo Ping never lost his touch, I should try True Legend and Master Z.

People seem excited about Scott Adkins, I actually hadn't heard of him but he's in Ip Man 4 and Triple Threat (with Tony Jaa, Iko Uwais and Jeeja Yanin). Oddly the gritty british hard bastard prison film Avengement appeals. All these films out just this year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUQzHB8hs_s

I've got a lot of Jet Li films to see but somehow he just never appealed to me as much as the other major stars.

Distribution is an obvious problem. I thought of getting Mrs K but it would have cost 30 pounds minimum. Some real digging and fan discussion is probably needed to highlight the best of recent times and more countries are making the stuff now. Are period films even viable on anything but a high budget now?

Mrs. K is pretty fun but probably less action than you would expect, it's a sorta ripoff of Taken - but with ass-kicking Kara Hui, so good! I saw a screening a few years ago. Definitely not worth 30 pounds tho.

True Legend and Master Z, though both imperfect, are recommended. (Particularly True Legend, which has a really bleh third act, but a great first 2/3rds).

How about The Thousand Faces of Dunjia and Crouchin Tiger Hidden Dragon 2?

Any other good stuff you seen recently?

8 Diagram Pole Fighter coming in march. Glad I held off on watching everything on prime streaming. 88 Films seem to be going with safer bets.

Zu Warriors From The Magic Mountain coming on bluray. A film I'll happily buy a second time.

Iron Fists And Kung Fu Kicks - Better than the other martial arts film documentaries I've seen so far (that's not saying much, some of them were godawful). Grady Hendrix is in it and he seems almost strangely passionate. I feel slightly guilty at enjoying the stories about the risks taken while filming.

I hate it when these documentaries spend so much time talking about how Hong Kong influenced american films but this additionally follows other kinds of influence (work out videos, dance, youtube, african films).

I wish it clearly labeled all the film clips it shows, especially when there are alternate film titles.

Although it did fire me up and make me want to see everything, I think there should be a tv series on this or even something that goes deeper into chinese film/tv history in general. Because the pure Hong Kong comedies are often referenced but rarely seen by western viewers and there's a whole lot of other things that probably should be discussed.

Police Story 3: Supercop - Really wish this was in the Eureka boxed set. Apparently it can be difficult to find a good version of this, there are a few mistitled or similarly titled films that people buy by accident. I got the Umbrella edition.
The train/helecopter/motorbike scenes with Michelle Yeoh are amazing.

Butterfly & Sword - Michelle Yeoh, Donnie Yen and a few other stars of the era (actually those two are still big stars). Some of the better wirework I've seen. Sadly the ending in my dvd version was cut off in an extremely clumsy fashion. Someone thought the ending was too sad! They should have cut a few seconds earlier.

Wing Chun - Michelle Yeoh and Donnie Yen again. Solid.

Flying Dagger - Jing Wong filmed this same year as Holy Weapon with much of the same cast. Fun to see Maggie Cheung ripping through a tree while screaming like a cat. Pretty costumes.

Kung Fu Cult Master - Imdb says that Jing Wong and Sammo Hung directed this together but Hung had no official credit onscreen.
This clearly was supposed to have sequels but they were cancelled (the translation of the Jin Yong novel should be coming out soon, so I can maybe find out if the incest-baiting wasn't just in my head. But he revises his novels a lot.) The old man embedded in the rolling stone ball is interesting.

Biggest flaw is how obviously sped up much of the film is, even dialogue scenes look like they are on fast forward. The lushness of the visuals makes it all the more awkward, if it was more cheap and nasty looking, it might have had a chance of working. A stunning blunder for such a big film.

Fate Of Lee Khan - As with other King Hu films, the buildup takes a very long time. This might be more inn-bound than Dragon Inn (someone in the features very aptly compared it to Fawlty Towers!), but the last third is excellent. I'm ranking this just after Legend Of The Mountain.
Only real flaw is that allies seem to just stand around watching each other fight when they most need assistance.

Fingers crossed that Eureka releases The Valiant Ones and Painted Skin.

Miracles/ Mr Canton & Lady Rose - Jackie Chan's 1930s HK gangster film. This is incredibly long, the international cut shaves off 20 minutes and it's kind of understandable.
I wasn't wowed by it but someone in the features makes a quite convincing argument that it shows Chan as a particularly strong director and ideally should have led to better things for him and maybe there was a huge missed opportunity.

The Protector - Jackie Chan teamed with James Glickenhaus in the hopes of doing something more serious and becoming a star in America.
I watched the HK version with added fights but after seeing the comparison feature, I realized that the american version would have been a better idea, as the non-dubbed dialogue gives the actors far more presence and it's more stylistically coherent. Glickenhaus' direction is deliberately slow and almost Michael Mann-ish at times.

Interview with Glickenhaus is great, he doesn't pull his punches about his dislike for the HK version and he talks at length how Golden Harvest didn't support Chan's ambitions and Chan possibly didn't put the right work into becoming a global star.
Some other good interviews about the american and hong kong crews working together.

Crime Story - Yet again Jackie Chan teamed up with a harder edged director in hopes of doing something more serious and fell out with Kirk Wong because he was ultimately too perverse for Jackie. Some deleted scenes are still vaulted. Why? It seems like this is part of Jackie's image control.
As seen in the documentary mentioned above, some buildings were blown up without permission; there's a genuine sense of danger in these scenes.
Like a more stylish, down to earth and dirty version of Police Story.

I watched David West's commentaries to Dragon Missile and Spiritual Boxer. I'm always in discussion with myself how much time and money I want to put into Chinese martial arts films but I'm really enjoying just learning about them, filling in the gaps, recognizing more and more actors, learning which actors were previously martial artists and who learned on the job.

West mentioned the freeze frame endings both times and although they are initially confounding I think they are often the best kind of endings. I generally dislike endings that settle down and tuck you into bed.
Bringing back more abrupt endings might be a risk but people might come around to them. I think Killer Joe had one of the best endings of relatively recent times.
I wonder how Peter Jackson's Return Of The King might have been if it had ended with a freeze frame of Golem falling in mid-air.

I'm not a big fan of Spiritual Boxer but somehow the brief scene of Lau Kar-Leung shouting and posturing with his top off made my week. I've never seen him like that.

More forthcoming UK disc releases: Throw Down, Clan Of The White Lotus and Operation Condor.

8 Diagram Pole Fighter - I had some misgivings about this to start with. It's often treated as the last great Shaw studio film but the fake plain at the start (why couldn't they have used a real one?) makes the battle look like a reenactment and the two heroes who spend much of the first half lashing out in anger and madness get really annoying. But the very high complexity of the end fight, the bamboo cart used like a cannon and the dental devastation redeems everything.
The studio was so confident about the film that there's some text at the end saying something like "an undeniably good film". This is relying heavily on the second half.

The final fight scene in "8 Diagram Pole Fighter" is thoroughly insane.

I keep meaning to see that one.
Saw Martial Club recently; not one of the best overall, but the final fight scene is spectacular. Also, Kara Hui A+ as always.

This is a pretty good guide to Shaw blurays around the world.
https://www.36styles.com/kungfufandom/index.php?/topic/22567-shaw-brothers-on-blu-ray/

Germany is doing quite a lot but it's strange how little common ground there is between countries.

The Eureka bluray of Wheels On Meals is pretty great for interviews (and the film better than I remembered, I totally forgot most of it somehow), especially with the american martial artists. Benny The Jet was so energized and inspiring.

There's a super long podcast about martial arts with Tarantino
https://pca.st/gc7rtv9w
List of films discussed
https://letterboxd.com/juanmotoa/list/pure-cinema-podcast-kung-fu-cinema/

Was quite annoyed he was so positive that Kao Pao-shu/Gao Baoshu was THE ONLY female martial arts director. I'd be surprised if she and Pearl Chang were the only two.

Wikipedia says Dark Lady Of Kung Fu is a sequel to Wolf Devil Woman so I might check that out soon.

I don't suppose that's transcribed anywhere, because I am not gonna invest 2 and a half hours into that

I wouldn't recommend it that much. Quentin spends at least the first 15 minutes talking about people he interviewed early on (no martial arts people) and his voice is really echoey (I thought the technical things like that wouldn't be an issue for him).

Most interesting for me was how he rates Lo Lieh as the best martial arts actor, he thinks Jimmy Wang Yu was a really great director and talks about double and triple bill combinations that get an audience excited. It's very fixated on the early 70s, that seems to be his preference.

Didn't know Lee Yi Min starred in a Kamen Rider knockoff called Super Rider, but not so sure it is a complete knockoff because Toei are listed as the co-producers.

QT wrote a long article about Jimmy Wang Yu if you're more interested in that:
https://thenewbev.com/tarantinos-reviews/wang-yu-superstar-super-director/

I read a bit of it but I mostly taken away his main recommendations, which he also talked about in the podcast. Most of the films he talks about are on the Wu-Tang Collection on youtube, which seems sorta legit (they're on amazon prime) but I can't imagine they own the rights to them all or that they're public domain. I'm sure there's some Golden Harvest films in there.

Kind of taken me by surprise that Wang Yu is rated as such a great director because I've never before heard anyone say anything positive about him. Everything is about how badly he treated people, being accused of murder or that he didn't cut the mustard as a martial arts performer (Tarantino disputes this last part but admits his kicks weren't very good).

a timely thread. i only know the most famous martial arts movies and would like to know more. i watched the jet li 'fist of legend' tonight with my kids and they liked it.

we're going to watch 'wing chun' tomorrow (my third time seeing it)

I've got a ton of stuff lined up and I'm kind of impatient to order more but want to wait til things are a bit safer.

i don't think Wang Yu is - this is Tarantino talking him up because of his lack of fame, imo

Zu Warriors From The Magic Mountain - I was happy to buy this again because it's one of my favorite films ever. I still don't completely understand it (a lot of that is due to fast dialogue, and I only have so much patience for rewinding to re-read it all).

I was surprised to hear this was initially a flop. Now it seems like the main cinematic foundation for every chinese fantasy blockbuster. depending on how specific you want to be about approaches to wuxia, this can be considered the first of a certain kind of wuxia and I haven't seen or heard of anything bettering it.
The costumes and designs are wonderful (I think Brigette Lin has as many as 3 different costumes/hairstyles and they're all great) and the wirework scenes at least seem to me a lot more complex than almost any other film I can think of.

Interesting things from the Tony Rayns commentary:
Talking about Stanley Kwan's documentary on gender flipping in chinese film, I'd love to see this.
I didn't know that this was an adaptation (don't know why I was surprised because most fantasy leaning wuxia films seem to be adaptations of books), he says that Tsui Hark only did a very loose adaptation and wasn't interested in following what the novels were actually about. Rayns says the book series by Huanzhulouzhu is 64 books but I seen one listing saying 8 books; perhaps there's a core series and various spinoffs? Only the prequel is available in english and I'm hoping the recent Jin Yong and Gu Long translations make this series a possibility in english print.

The bonus interviews included are very long so the Eureka version has a lot that the Hong Kong Legends bluray didn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku3kF6xZdeQ

Deadful Melody - A Story about a magic lyre which isn't particularly well told; Yuen Biao doesn't make notable use of his talents and Brigitte Lin completely steals the film from him (they were both in Zu Warriors From The Magic Mountain too). The villains are colorful (in the most literal sense) and all the best scenes are the ones with the lyre (and the big drum and hammer at the end), often creating explosions from Lin's rapid playing; it's worth seeing just for these few good things.

The Optimum dvd has an annoyingly small screen size (why was this so common back then?)

Story is based on a Ni Kuang novel. I'm surprised how often and where his name pops up. There's another Wisely film in production. Check his credits and biographies.

"a Chinese author whose life began unpromisingly as a teenage drop-out, before his swift rise through the ranks of the Communist Party security police. Accused of counter-revolutionary activities, he fled to Hong Kong in 1957 and embraced anti-Communist fiction with all the zeal of a convert
...
In public punditry, Ni presented a grim view of the future. Based on his own experience, he predicted that China's rising middle class would not become a catalyst for democracy, but merely a fresh crop of potential Communist stooges. Fearful for the consequences of the 1997 Handover for dissenting voices, he left for San Francisco in 1992, only to return in 2006, claiming neither he nor his wife could ever fit in. Hong Kong remained his home thereafter, but his antipathy for the Communist regime did not slacken in later years. In a 2009 interview, he provocatively announced that he was less afraid of China during the purges of the Mao era, since the worst possible danger to the world would be presented by a predatory capitalist system run by a dictatorial elite."

http://www.sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/ni_kuang
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ni_Kuang
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0393250/?ref_=ttfc_fc_wr4

I knew that name sounded familiar... he's done a bazillion Shaw movies

This trailer shows some of the cool bits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F542CJFAIwE

I'm starting to use this thread to remember which Shaw films I've actually seen.

Some nice posters here
https://drelium.wordpress.com/2014/04/05/my-fan-arts/
I maybe like this one best because it has a 16-bit vibe
https://drelium.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/gwgex3_tsang2.jpg

how is Birth Of The Dragon? it's been on film4 recently.

Zu Warriors goes on the wishlist, i think.

Birth of the Dragon?
iirc that's the movie that's supposedly about Bruce Lee but makes it about some random white guy

Eureka just announced Mr Vampire. I've never liked it much (Encounters Of The Spooky Kind is superior) but I'm looking forward to the features.

Something else from Tony Rayns Zu commentary: he talks a bit about Mou Tun-fei, best known for the infamous Men Behind The Sun. Rayns says two of his earliest films are two of the nastiest sexploitation films, I think both were banned and his last film was never released (I think it was much like Men Behind The Sun). There's an interview/documentary about him on youtube.

How dare, I love Mr.Vampire! Honour the hopping vampires!

The hopping vampire in Encounters Of The Spooky Kind is superior, one of the best movie monsters ever.

I really gotta find a good copy of that

The sequel isn't as good but has some hilarious bits.

If I was a trillionaire I'd try to get Sammo to make a third film in the series.

I've heard that Mr Vampire 3 is quite good but most of the hopping corpse films are supposed to be total dross.

> Birth of the Dragon?
> iirc that's the movie that's supposedly about Bruce Lee but makes it about some random white guy

i see what you mean. i'd only seen the first 2 minutes and that was all subtitled, but 5 minutes in it's already all about the white guy and how the temple was against bruce lee because he was half-white, let alone teaching white guys.

Bride With The White Hair getting a Eureka bluray. It doesn't include the sequel (I've never heard that it's a step down). My Tartan dvd copy is shockingly bad for such a good label.

Someone from Eureka says there's hopefully going to be a Michelle Yeoh box set.

I had a fairly long list of Wu Tang Collection (youtube channel) films to watch but I ended up only watching one of them because most of them seem to have multiple problems. Older martial arts fans might say I'm a brat spoiled by the last 15 years of mostly reliably good disc versions (some of the earliest dvds are terrible) but I say why bother when there's a steady stream of remasters coming out?
The problems included bad picture quality, wrong aspect ratio, english dubbing and worst of all: screen cropping. Some fans actually seek out english dubs but wrong aspect ratios and screen cropping just destroy films.

The one that was scratchy but watchable was Crystal Fist/Jade Claw. It's not particularly distinct, I'm guessing the fights are the only reason anyone remembers it but I wouldn't really recommend it.

Kinda funny to see Eureka be the best label hands down in rereleasing Hong Kong cinema stuff but still sniffily witholding the Masters Of Cinema distinction even for releases directed by Tsui Hark or Jackie Chan when Criterion at this point has caved in and does a Bruce Lee boxset.

Drunken Master was in their Masters Of Cinema series, which is funny because it's really not one of his best films and as far as I know, Bruce Lee's films aren't often considered the best in the genre (apart from himself of course).

I think all the King Hu reissues have been in the Masters Of Cinema series and most of them fit comfortably enough in the genre.

I think it's wonderful that both Eureka and 88 Films are both sort of doing this together (much of the releases have the same reissue credits), but why has Arrow released so few martial arts films? They really ought to get in on it.

How did I miss this thread before now? Catnip!