Help, I'm trapped in an ivory tower! Or "what the fuck am i getting myself into with this academia stuff"

Is there anyone ITT who got a PhD, left academia (couldn't get a job or other reasons), and now feels that going to grad school in the first place was a big waste of time?

On second thought I guess that is unlikely to have happened to anybody here, but I'd also be interested to hear anecdotes about other people it happened to (interested in knowing whether that sort of experience is possible/common, and what it feels like).

I’m not sure I made the wrong decision to do it given what I knew at the time. I use the skills I picked up every day and the credential has opened doors for me. And I enjoyed the life for a while.

But I didn’t enjoy it for as long as I persisted. And I could have picked up the skills I’ve gone on to use much quicker and cheaper some other way than 5 years of grad school and 2 postdocs.

I'm not quite through yet but I certainly don't regret writing my doctoral thesis, which was something I needed to get out of my system anyway.

i have not left, but i have been stuck in adjunct hell for a long time now. it's hard to imagine being regretful, but i started attending college when i was in high school, and then got a head start on grad school when i was in college, and then switched programs and schools to really begin grad school, so all along i did not feel like i was making life-economic choices against various opportunity costs, but just doing what i wanted within the framework i mostly already existed in. in significant ways i feel like doing all this has brought me 'nothing', but i value the imponderable totality of ways it has affected my intellectual and personal development.

on the other hand, the longer i am stuck being exploited, and i see how 'far behind' it is putting me in life with regard to things that it is hard for a person not to value conventionally to some degree (economic security and financial independence mainly, and what flows from those, like the respect of romantic partners and the reciprocal attitudes that class-neighbors extend to one another), the more i am apprehensive that a huge wave of regret is coming over the horizon someday to drown me, once my values decisively shift and i confront the reality that academia has deprived me of the (fundamentally materialistic as well as socially-valuable) materials of a life.

I often second-guess my choice of MA programme and my decision to accept parental support, which I'd sworn off years earlier, to do a PhD right after; not getting funding was a sign that I wasn't ready and at least needed a year or two out to build skills and a portfolio and/or eplore other options. But, no, I don't ever really wish I had just started working at a desk job at 22 or something. (I did have those kinds of doubts for a while, until I realized I was willing to leave a f/t desk job to move halfway across the country to teach one course because I liked that so much better.)

loving the phd so far (3 years in)

just doing what i wanted within the framework i mostly already existed in

this really speaks to me because when i reflect back on my decision to go to grad school it was just a combination of enjoying it and inertia.

i am given to huge waves of regret over academia (i sometimes think my life would be objectively much better if I had not gotten a phd, or at least not a phd in english) but then I am careful to remind myself that the things that are bad about my life are due at least as much to my character and all the other bad choices i tend to make (or not make, as it were).

a close friend went to law school, routinely works 80 hour weeks, is essentially suicidally miserable at his job and regrets his career path....but i think "well at least he has a career!"

Maybe more to VC's question, I do have an old friend who did a PhD in sociology and has been consistently working as a sessional (adjunct) at the local uni where we both did our undergrads for years. He seemed to get a decent course load every year, and owns a house (way out in the boonies) and supports a kid with his spouse, but has been incredibly bitter the whole time. This fall, he has started law school.

Another friend has become completely disenchanted with academia and his entire field of study, blames his PhD for ruining his marriage and financial situation, and seems to constantly share right-wing links on social media now. Last I heard, he was applying to teacher's college and hoped to teach a different subject than the one he studied at the high school level.

So I don't think the experience is uncommon.

ryan i think you should have business cards made up that say R Y A N on the front and on the back 'published author'

"man about town"

a close friend went to law school, routinely works 80 hour weeks, is essentially suicidally miserable at his job and regrets his career path....but i think "well at least he has a career!"

― ryan, Friday, October 25, 2019 11:12 AM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

maybe im still too young or canadian but the avoiding having a career part seems like feature not bug? i tend to think, this might be less fun when it becomes more like a career

it's never really like a career, for better or for worse, though I have colleagues who wear coats and ties to convince themselves (or their parents) that it is like a career. me, I just don't wear pants and work 16 hours a day, best of all worlds

i get stressed during the intense workload stress periods (run-up to deadlines) then *really* enjoy the first couple weeks of relative chillness after a deadline passes. but then i get restless and sign myself up for another deadline. gives me an excuse to turn down social obligations

We don't do careers in Canada.

Does Canada not have the Protestant work ethic?

It seems like "don't expect to make a career out of it" may be the best advice to give someone considering getting into academia... yet apparently it is impossible (speaking as a US grad student) to get through grad school without constantly being reminded that one is being prepared for an academic career!

the opportunity cost alone makes it hard to justify as anything but career prep

Does Canada not have the Protestant work ethic?

If you're American, no, thank Christ. If you're European, very much so, yes.

what if you're quebecois

About the same tbh.

Ha, I was just kind of riffing on flopson's post tbh but maybe there is a cultural difference?

there might be some cultural difference but maybe more the employer provided health care thing

also sorry i didn’t mean to be dismissive about the adjuncting /no stable employment struggle. however i think ryans lawyer friends life stinks ass

ryans lawyer friends life stinks ass

To say the least. I'd rather be on the dole.

George Michael agrees: https://youtu.be/BsyHQgiem8c

George Michael otm.

I don't think I'm ever going to get over idealizing academia and regretting not taking that path. I know that it's to some extent a grass-is-greener thing, but it's hard not feel envious when friends from the MA years are finishing their doctorates and landing cool post-docs and jobs - basically fulfilling this future that I'd spent so much time imagining for myself and which my brain still latches onto when I'm down.

h/t j. (thread):

Can I ask academics of any level of seniority how many hours a week they reckon they work. My current estimate is over 100. I am a mug. But what is the norm in real life. ?

— mary beard (@wmarybeard) November 23, 2019

https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2020/05/07/fuck-the-bread-the-bread-is-over/

Not 'academia' per se, but can anyone recommend any websites/journals/magazines accepting papers (or articles) on anything film/music/art/culture/psychoanalysis-y? Probably more casual than peer-reviewed, but possibly either.

I am unable to proceed onto a doctorate yet due to technicalities that have been compounded by these times, and feel (like many, no doubt) that I am utterly stagnating. It helps to read theory, but I find my motivation lacking when there isn't something concrete to channel it into. I'll look into different things, but just wondered if anyone has specifically heard of anything recently, or had success in different places.

Sorry to hear that the pandemic has been an impediment to your studies/research on top of everything else.

This might be too academic a suggestion, but have you considered Paragraph? Their editorial board is more open to exploring the intersection between aesthetics and psychoanalysis than most. Failing that, maybe 3:AM Magazine if you'd rather keep the ivory tower at bay?

I also came across this ongoing project a few days ago and was tempted to submit the entirety of the 'recently on ILX Dreams…' thread:

https://www.lockdowndreams.com

Thank you for these really excellent suggestions! I found some other places, but honestly none of them were as exciting as this.

Ha, coincidentally, the lockdown dreams project is hosted by the very department I am unable to begin working in! Well, the theoretical side of it anyway. I'm supposed to progress onto a clinical doctorate, but it's going to be at least 2 years before I can begin and honestly I don't know if maybe I should do a PhD while I'm waiting, or if that is mad.

Is anyone working on a PhD during lockdown, and if so, how is it?

So my workplace (not just UCSF, this is UC-wide) has done something great:

After more than two years of negotiations, UC has reached an open access agreement with Elsevier! 🥳https://t.co/b7AyUxifji

— UCSF Library (@ucsf_library) March 16, 2021

Here's the general UCOP post, though the UCSF one linked there has more specifics

https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/press-room/uc-news-uc-secures-landmark-open-access-deal-world-s-largest-scientific-publisher

well after 25 years in academia I've applied for a science writing job, no doubt way off base but a worthwhile message to self

anyone fancy applying for this?

I screamed pic.twitter.com/IR14czokLl

— Christopher DeWeese (@lighghghght) June 15, 2021

Does this thread ring true for anyone still in the game?

But I think the largest group of faculty, for a variety of reasons, aren't making big job moves. If I had to describe what the Great Resignation looks like for them, I'd call it disengagement. A general pulling back or away, a doubling down on autonomy.

— Kevin R. McClure (@kevinrmcclure) January 11, 2022

It pretty much describes how my spouse and I are operating. I always had a tenuous connection to my department (non tenure stream spousal accommodation who teaches primarily in an interdisciplinary program that is a tiny part of the overall focus) and not being around any colleagues for the past two years makes me feel zero connection at all. My wife could go up for full but what’s the point? It would be a pittance raise and more responsibility in exchange for an ego boost and the dept getting to brag about another full professor.

We’ve lost a number of tenured faculty with no hope of those lines coming back anytime soon (and we know of two who have campus visits for other jobs coming up) so all of them are on literally every grad committee because someone has to be. We’re on our third (interim) chair in the 4.5 years I’ve been here.

I could get a private sector (or university staff) IT/dev job that pays more but it would be a 12 month 9-5 office job vs being able to do whatever for three months every summer. Basically we’re at a sweet spot of time/money/workload and despite neither of us being really invested at all we can’t think of how anything could be better. So I do my best at teaching but go through the motions on everything else whiles looking forward to summers.

Feels pathetic to say it, but I have lost all hope that my academic job will improve, and at 52 I highly doubt anyone would hire me to something new, so what on earth can I do, just be miserable for 8 years until I can retire?
Being in Tasmania the number of private bioscience startups is … low.

ha ha, my promotion application bringing together 11 years of the things I've built and innovated, going the extra mile, heart and soul stuff, was met with four months of total silence, followed by "nope".

ha ha, my promotion application bringing together 11 years of the things I've built and innovated, going the extra mile, heart and soul stuff, was met with four months of total silence, followed by "nope".

I missed this. Sorry dude.

Ugh sorry

https://www.dailycardinal.com/article/2023/11/exclusive-facing-budget-shortfalls-uw-system-president-privately-suggested-chancellors-shift-away-from-liberal-arts-programs-at-low-income-campuses

I work at the UW Parkside and we serve more low income students than any other school in the system. I can't adequately express how mad this makes me.

well, they are 'liberal' arts, right? I'm mean it says it right on the diploma

I peruse job ads frequently, as I'm sure many academics do. I have noticed a ton of openings in my field (Art/Design) in the US south, particularly Texas and Florida. I wounder why that is????? Far fewer desirable positions to be found in other areas. I'm not looking looking, just passive, but it seems remarkable.