Impeach Trump Y/N

otm

.@RepMalinowski says Taylor “remembered some things that previous witnesses somehow failed to remember.”

— Ben Siegel (@benyc) October 22, 2019

Debbie is terrible but

Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla., said Taylor "drew a straight line" with documents, timelines and individual conversations in his records at the hearing.

"I do not know how you would listen to today's testimony from Ambassador Taylor and come to any other (conclusion) except that the president abused his power and withheld foreign aid," she said.

So a bunch of Democrats were disturbed?

― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, October 22, 2019 2:10 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgttPt_1IG0

The senior U.S. diplomat in Ukraine said Tuesday he was told release of military aid was contingent on public declarations from Ukraine that it would investigate the Bidens and the 2016 election, contradicting President Trump’s denial that he used the money as leverage for political gain.

Acting ambassador William B. Taylor Jr. testified behind closed doors in the House impeachment probe of Trump that he stands by his characterization that it was “crazy” to make the assistance contingent on investigations he found troubling.

Upon arriving in Kyiv last spring he became alarmed by secondary diplomatic channels involving U.S. officials that he called “weird,” Taylor said, according to a copy of his lengthy opening statement obtained by The Washington Post.

Taylor walked lawmakers through a series of conversations he had with other U.S. diplomats who were trying to obtain what one called the “deliverable” of Ukrainian help investigating Trump’s political rivals.

Taylor said he spoke to Ambassador Gordon Sondland, the U.S. envoy to the European Union.

“During that phone call, Amb. Sondland told me that President Trump had told him that he wants President [Volodymyr] Zelensky to state publicly that Ukraine will investigate Burisma and alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election,” Taylor said in the statement.

Former Vice President Joe Biden’s son Hunter had been a board member of Burisma, a large Ukrainian gas company. Joe Biden is a 2020 Democratic presidential candidate.

“Amb. Sondland also told me that he now recognized that he had made a mistake by earlier telling the Ukrainian officials to whom he spoke that a White House meeting with President Zelensky was dependent on a public announcement of investigations — in fact, Amb. Sondland said, ‘everything’ was dependent on such an announcement, including security assistance,’” Taylor told House investigators.

“He said that President Trump wanted President Zelensky ‘in a public box’ by making a public statement about ordering such investigations.’

GOP noise machine gonna go into overdrive re: how this testimony is not credible, he's a Democrat, conspiracy etc etc

Look, Trump is a man of incredible moral scruples that it physically pains him to hear about possible corruption. He will do ANYTHING to stamp it out. It just so happens that the 2 most corrupt people are his 2016 opponent in Prez election and 2020 possible opponent in Prez election. In fact, these 2 have committed p much the only acts of corruption worthy of being investigated by the US.

Starting to think this guy might not be on the level

Taylor's full statement is here.

Trump could appear on TV naked and the Freedom Caucus would insist that wasn't his hairy ass.

I care more about the voters being swung by this. Which seems is happening.

http://www.belge.com.tr/uploads/2018/12/03/abd-baskani-trump-abdnin-silah-yarisina-716-milyar-dolar-harcamasi-cilginlik-b.jpg

Bwaaaaaaaaa!

You know he's taking the towels and bathrobes when he leaves.

The next administration needs to do a video walkthrough on move-in day because the keyboards are going to be full of glue, fish in the percolators, you name it. It's going to make the recent Alabama sheriffs' story look tame.

The next administration needs to do a video walkthrough on move-in day because the keyboards are going to be full of glue, fish in the percolators, you name it.

Nobody on his team is smart enough for that. At most, they'll leave a pile of his used diapers in the middle of the Oval Office rug.

They're mean as fucking snakes, that trumps smarts. DJT himself will upper-deck the toilet nearest the oval office.

fuck, I sound like treeship, god dammit

so I guess they're not wrapping up by Thanksgiving

Will make for extra fun family time for some of us.

Scalise:

"Maybe in the Soviet Union, this is how they conduct hearings."

Y'know, dude....

Glad you're making the most of your second chance at life

fuck, I sound like treeship, god dammit

― Galangal Baker (WmC), Tuesday, October 22, 2019 7:09 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

judging by your posts before this one, you're confusing me with bizzaro gazzara and neanderthal

Wait which one was me

so if they did impeach AND remove before the election, would he still be elgiible to run and win re-election?

because maaaaan

yes

although I think the terms of conviction can include being barred from office

barring from office would require a separate vote

if/when he’s out he’s gonna need a LOT of lawyers

if he were removed (still dont see it), weren't a dozen of the GOP primaries cancelled already?

no need - they can always vote for the man who on at least one occasion had sex with Mother

yeah I don't think removal is gonna happen either. Even peeling off a couple GOP votes (Romney, Murkowski, Collins, Gardner) seems like a really big challenge.

Pretty sure there will be no removal and I am also not sure I want one. Damaged, deranged, infuriated, unhinged, he will be so much easier to beat. Make the dead-ender Cult 45 folks just go down with the ship. Don't give them the easy out of another candidate.

Judgement in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgement and Punishment, according to Law.

article 1, section 3, clause 7

Beginning last April, BuzzFeed News has pursued five separate Freedom of Information Act lawsuits to pry loose all the subpoenas and search warrants that Mueller’s team executed, as well as all the emails, memos, letters, talking points, legal opinions, and interview transcripts it generated. In short, we asked for all the communications of any kind that passed through the special counsel’s office. We also requested all of the documents that would reveal the discussions among Attorney General Bill Barr, former deputy attorney general Rod Rosenstein, and other high-ranking officials about whether to charge President Donald Trump with obstruction.

Justice Department lawyers said the volume of records at issue could total 18 billion pages and could take centuries to produce.

At a hearing earlier this month, US District Court Judge Reggie Walton was not sympathetic. “It shouldn’t fall on the backs of the citizens to wait years to find out what the government is up to,” he said. If the Justice Department couldn’t handle the request in a more timely fashion, he added, it should ask Congress for money to hire more help.

Today, in response to a court order, the Justice Department has released the first installment of documents: 500 pages of summaries of FBI interviews with witnesses, available here for the first time. Another installment will be released every month for at least the next eight years.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/mueller-report-secret-memos-1

many americans had trouble finding the time to read the executive summary of either volume of the mueller report (7 pages for vol 1, 6 pages for vol 2). in response, i would like to ask my fellow americans to please take the time to look at about 500 pages of fbi interview summaries, released every month for the next 8 years or so

hey man i'd like to do my part but i'm no devin nunes

Given the evidence already public, including the transcript of the call and Mulvaney's press conference where he basically said the aid was withheld for political gain, Trump's impeachment is about 98% certain. Given the record of Republican senators since 2016, including their defense of Trump's clear obstruction of justice, I'd say the odds are about 15 to 1 against Trump's removal from office. Even his censure over the Ukraine scandal is a very long shot.

I wish this weren't so, and new evidence could change the odds, but I can't see any other way to look at it right now. Viewed from a different angle, the Republicans are caught in this bad situation like fish in a net and they know it. They just hope they won't have to pay too high a price for it, but there will be a price to pay and they know that, too.

I Feel like a v strong safe space for all gop senators would have to be devised by the senate gop to make removal something they will ever fall back to. The safe space doesnt have to be a permission from dem/left side, it can be something the gop makes for itself and then promotes to its base tho. Something like distinguishing illegal acts by trump, but lining up hard for pence as the true uncompromised core of gop.

the whole thing would be so not credible, and hard to pull off, i think they’ll rather ride trump to whatever conclusion they can get without surrender.

catastrophizing me is a little nervous that if it gets even jankier theyll just go for trying to cancel or nullify an election. not really, but uh.

that 'safe space' scenario seems very very unlikely to me. Trump is sui generis and his knucklehead followers will never be so loyal to or charmed by Pence.

his knucklehead followers will never be so loyal to or charmed by Pence

otm. the GOP electoral strategy has become exclusively Trump-centered and relies entirely on the charisma he has for their base. Pence is an empty suit with evangelical/anti-abortion cred as his only national asset.

i do agree, and i don't see a way to make space into which the gop may retreat in order to accept removal. and also, i sometimes fear they do not see a space to afford a fair election at all.

i think the GOP senators will only seek that safe space if things get 1,000,000% dire for them and there's no way they can continue to defend Trump. Not saying that's impossible, but they have so far shown a willingness to go pretty damn far in standing up for him.

xpost Well, yeah, that's fair to assume. The GOP wins a fair number of elections largely because they work so tirelessly to handicap the system in their favor beforehand.

The only thing he could do to make them turn on him is lose them money

and also, i sometimes fear they do not see a space to afford a^n fair election at all.

welp, u right, ^clarified.

Q: And when you say that, this was the first time I heard that the security assistance—not just the White House meeting—was conditioned on the investigation, when you talk about conditioned, did you mean that if they didn’t do this, the investigations, they weren’t going to get that, the meeting and the military assistance?

A: That was my clear understanding, security assistance money would not come until the President [of Ukraine] committed to pursue the investigation.

Q: So if they don’t do this, they are not going to get that was your understanding?

A: Yes, sir.

Q: Are you aware that quid pro quo literally means this for that? A: I am.

JIM JORDAN: Are you aware that quid pro quo is now a good thing, and we are proud of our president for doing it?

yep

Here are some basic thoughts about what happened in this story, what matters and how to describe it.

The President used extortion to cheat in the 2020 presidential election. He used military aid dollars meant to aid an ally against his Russian patrons in order to force Ukraine to intervene in the 2020 elections, in order to remain in office by corrupt means.

There are various crimes that get committed along the way. But that is the core of it. The President is delegated vast powers to act in the national interest and he has vast discretion to determine what he or she believes the national interest is. But when he uses those powers for his own personal or financial gain they are illegitimate on their face, abuses of power and merit impeachment. The fact that he was doing so to sabotage a national election makes it vastly worse. And the fact that he was getting a foreign power to sabotage a US election makes it worse still. Any talk of “quid pro quos” and this and that minutiae is a distortion of what happened. Quid pro quos are simply exchanges of one thing for another. Presidents will ask for help on one bill in exchange for another. They’ll condition one kind of aid to a country on assistance on another foreign policy goal. In itself it means nothing. The crimes are bribery and extortion, the abuses of power are using presidential power for personal gain and the central offense against the state is the attempt to sabotage a national election, the event on which the legitimacy of the entire system rests.

...We don’t even need to get into the other crimes involved, having a crooked lawyer taking over US foreign policy in a critical part of the world and sidelining professional diplomats. We just focus on the core thing. The President is given tremendous power to advance the national interest, see that the laws are enforced, preserve the national welfare. These aren’t powers that he owns personally. They are delegated for these ends. Your banker has great power to act on your behalf. They have no right to steal your money. A doctor has vast powers to cut your body, make decisions when you are unconscious. They no right to kill you or sell your organs or fondle you for their personal satisfaction. It’s all the same thing. Stop saying quid pro quo or getting lost in the details. The crimes are clear. Use language that accurately describes them.

The President is delegated vast powers to act in the national interest and he has vast discretion to determine what he or she believes the national interest is. But when he uses those powers for his own personal or financial gain they are illegitimate on their face, abuses of power...

This is precisely what the word "high" is meant to convey in the constitutional phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors", which means 'crimes made possible by a president's possession of the power of high office'; they are betrayals of the high responsibility and trust which must be placed in a president.