lol no our bicycle lanes are fine it's our sidewalks that are fucked
― j., Tuesday, 22 October 2019 08:04 (four years ago) link
I enjoy taking these scooters in cities with bike lanes and I think they do a good job filling a void for short distance trips. I hope one of the companies develops a sustainable business model.
― iatee, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 12:08 (four years ago) link
What's wrong with rental bicycles?
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 12:10 (four years ago) link
You canโt turn them into litter whenever youโre done
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 12:45 (four years ago) link
the electric scooters aren't currently legal on paths* or on the roads here in the uk, so we don't get to hire them, only bikes. people do still sell them and use them - there's one parked by the photocopier - but they can be confiscated if you're caught.
(tries to avoid the word 'pavement' because, like 'pants', you've chosen to use the word for something slighty different)
― koogs, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 12:55 (four years ago) link
I not only see these scooters now clogging bike lanes -- which are in short supply as it is -- in Cleveland, I saw a person the other day riding one ****on the freeway shoulder****.
― I don't get wet because I am tall and thin and I am afraid of people (Eliza D.), Tuesday, 22 October 2019 12:58 (four years ago) link
What's really cool is when they block ramps and other means of accessibility
― rob, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 13:24 (four years ago) link
hi, iatee!
― mh, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 13:25 (four years ago) link
Hey Americans outside New York City! If you think scooters are bad for other road and sidewalk users, especially children, old people and people with disabilities, wait until you hear about cars!!!Theyโre unbelievably dangerous and they literally destroy the fabric of cities, isolating all of us from each other socially and politically (especially people who canโt drive), and destroying the planet. (Which, back on topic for this thread, is not to to say selling a dollar for fifty cents like these companies are doing is a good idea)
― ๐ ๐๐ข๐จ (caek), Tuesday, 22 October 2019 16:19 (four years ago) link
it's somewhat rare that cars drive on sidewalks.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 16:29 (four years ago) link
Cars are the reasons streets and sidewalks are designed the way they are.And itโs not that rare!
― ๐ ๐๐ข๐จ (caek), Tuesday, 22 October 2019 16:32 (four years ago) link
i said somewhat rare.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 16:34 (four years ago) link
lol as a longtime cyclist and cycling advocate you are hardly going to see me defending car-based infrastructure
― I don't get wet because I am tall and thin and I am afraid of people (Eliza D.), Tuesday, 22 October 2019 16:35 (four years ago) link
yeah, I thought most of ilx was anti-car? They have those scooters in chile. People leave that shit everywhere.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 16:36 (four years ago) link
Cars aren't really my problem, it's been a while since anyone scrapped a biking lane to make way for cars in Copenhagen. Biking infrastructure was getting better and better. But then these fucking scooters showed up.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 16:37 (four years ago) link
E-scooters have taken over Hoboken. Unlike bikes however theyโre not allowed on sidewalks and people generally obey that rule. I donโt mind them but Hoboken is probably the ideal place for something like that. I also saw a lot of them when I was in Mexico City this spring though apparently theyโre operating in a legal grey area there.
― o. nate, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 16:38 (four years ago) link
In Queens last year I used to see a family of 4 taking two kids on two scooters on the sidewalk to school. It was kind of annoying but cute.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 16:40 (four years ago) link
I guess my point is that most places (with a couple of exceptions where pedestrians are the majority) in the US would be enormously improved by scooter use. There are some social conventions to work out and they need curbside parking (currently given to cars). And the rental companies oy vey.But it would be an improvement! And thereโs cars! So the anti scooter stuff preposterous to me that I feel like it must actually be some anti gentrification anti tech bro stuff. Which, fair. But come on! Cars!
― ๐ ๐๐ข๐จ (caek), Tuesday, 22 October 2019 16:42 (four years ago) link
What problems have the scooters caused in Denmark Fred? (Srs question)
― ๐ ๐๐ข๐จ (caek), Tuesday, 22 October 2019 16:43 (four years ago) link
I mean, all these 'in theory' good advances for society are all being executed without a care to responsible implementation.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 16:46 (four years ago) link
They are taking space from bikes, not cars. Plus people leave them everywhere. I don't get why not just support bikes?
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 16:54 (four years ago) link
I can imagine that due to various disabilities there are people who can operate scooters, but not bikes. (Arthritis, injuries, etc.)
caek, you're not wrong given certain assumptions, but given infrastructure as it exists now and given how many cyclists are killed and injured by motorists every year (without punishment), I can see things going very badly with a large expansion in scooter use unless car traffic is curbed significantly.
― I don't get wet because I am tall and thin and I am afraid of people (Eliza D.), Tuesday, 22 October 2019 17:01 (four years ago) link
the scooter users here are required to use the street not the sidewalk, but hardly anyone complies, partly because when they get in the street (and don't bother looking for quieter side streets like the less confident bikers often do) they're surprised and scared at how dangerous it is (exacerbated by their freewheeling unprotected style), and because as non-bikers they think it's perfectly fine to scoot on the sidewalk. there aren't going to be car-on-scooter fatalities, there are going to be scooter-on-pedestrian injuries.
― j., Tuesday, 22 October 2019 17:07 (four years ago) link
It's the whole "let's be legends" mentality. All of these tech-bro companies expanded too fast, disregarded communities, moneypitted funds or didn't even care about a baseline of ethics or user protections. They probably thought someone else would figure it out after they got their payday for their genius.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 17:10 (four years ago) link
well they were right
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 17:11 (four years ago) link
Most vc money goes to white men and their vision. Applaud that hard work.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 17:15 (four years ago) link
Nobody is going to figure it out, it's going to go away after it has harmed an enormous amount of people.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 17:15 (four years ago) link
that's called figuring it out. meanwhile you have deposited yr check and moved on to as yet undisrupted pastures
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 17:19 (four years ago) link
for about an hour I seriously considered a side hustle in being a scooter bounty hunter ...
― sarahell, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 17:22 (four years ago) link
One drawback of the scooter craze is that someone in our building has decided to set up a charging station in our hallway. I guess they make a commission for each scooter they charge?
― o. nate, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 17:35 (four years ago) link
They do, there's an entire economy based around it.
I wonder if being able to just step off a scooter might make them safer.
― koogs, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 17:39 (four years ago) link
I don't think the backlash is against scooters per se, but the fact the vast majority of them in many areas are the rental ones that don't have a dedicated dock and and just left wherever
I was reading about some scooter group in the NYC area that organizes mass rides similar to the bike city rides and it seemed like a pretty cool enthusiast community
― mh, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 17:42 (four years ago) link
I could definitely see the lack of dedicated parking for scooters being a dealbreaker somewhere like Manhattan where sidewalks are already extremely congested.
― o. nate, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 17:53 (four years ago) link
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/05/charging-electric-scooters-is-a-cutthroat-business/560747/
― sarahell, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 17:57 (four years ago) link
fwiw i think it's possible to separate the tech bro startup stuff (that belongs on this thread) from the "how do we plan to make US cities not be such unbelievably unpleasant places to move around (even in a car!)" stuff. i feel like many of you are struggling to do that.
whether they are good for a city is very city dependent. in general, the more pedestrians, the more problems they can cause (this goes for cars and bikes, too!). but almost nowhere in the US reaches the level where this is true. it's mind-boggling how few people are on the sidewalk in the "downtown core" for most US cities. the reason for this is cars! so, to the extent scooter use reduces car use, they are good!
― ๐ ๐๐ข๐จ (caek), Tuesday, 22 October 2019 18:24 (four years ago) link
I don't have a problem with the scooters ... in my neighborhood the users tend to be techbros, but in many other parts of my city, it's black kids and teens riding them, and it's kinda cute when they crew up and ride through the more gentrified parts of town.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 18:28 (four years ago) link
I believe we have a dormant city transportation/urbanization thread that iatee made a lot of good points on
this is the SV thread, and scooter rentals without real storage space is an issue that I feel is distinct but also entwined with the lackadaisical ditching of this e-waste on our sidewalks
― mh, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 18:32 (four years ago) link
yeah i was carping about the vc economy generally and have no data on scooters, tho i do think i saw a rack of them the other day on banyan drive (where the hotels are), which i guess is preferable from everyone's perspective to making all the tourists rent cars if they want to do anything on their vacation besides go to "shooter's"
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 18:32 (four years ago) link
(they should have to scoot across the pacific first tho)
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 18:35 (four years ago) link
fair. the regulation of tech is obviously where this (in hindsight pretty blithe!) comment breaks down:
i literally just read super pumped. it's absurd that i could write that.
(everyone read super pumped btw)
(and where is the transit/urban thread?
― ๐ ๐๐ข๐จ (caek), Tuesday, 22 October 2019 18:45 (four years ago) link
I was misremembering this thread, although it did get into the topic:People Who Live In Suburbs: Classy, Icky, or Dudes?
― mh, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 18:49 (four years ago) link
this is not as exciting a document as this tweet suggests but it's interesting
This shareholder letter from Grubhub is one of the most brutally honest management communications I've ever seen.Can read it as having two audiences: GRUB's shareholders, and the investors in and potential investors in Doordash, Postmates, and UberEats.https://t.co/JhuccS1mLI— modest proposal (@modestproposal1) October 28, 2019
While this is certainly useful information for GRUB shareholders, there is 100% an entirely separate audience for this pic.twitter.com/iSLkJoMHfB— modest proposal (@modestproposal1) October 28, 2019
― ๐ ๐๐ข๐จ (caek), Tuesday, 29 October 2019 03:42 (four years ago) link
Grubhub, which I had never heard of until now, is an absolutely shitty name:https://static2.stuff.co.nz/1407274073/389/10353389.jpg
― Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Tuesday, 29 October 2019 07:19 (four years ago) link
That's a pretty perfect explanation of why Instacart never made any sense to me whatsoever.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 29 October 2019 14:46 (four years ago) link
that... seems pretty honest? it takes time to drive to a bunch of places and take food and you have to actually pay people. refreshing!
― mh, Tuesday, 29 October 2019 15:05 (four years ago) link
public investors hate profitable, sustainable businesses
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Tuesday, 29 October 2019 16:06 (four years ago) link
they just aren't disruptive enough
― maffew12, Tuesday, 29 October 2019 16:07 (four years ago) link
I also remember reading that Grubhub does some fucked up shit with local businesses -- I think they set up fake websites and phone numbers for them and then take a cut of orders that come through those websites/numbers. Seems like straight up mafia shit.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 29 October 2019 16:13 (four years ago) link
Yelp was working with them to list restaurant phone numbers that went through Grubhub
― maffew12, Tuesday, 29 October 2019 16:17 (four years ago) link
my general rule is that if a business has their own delivery I go straight to them. same for carryout. some local ones are using grubhub as their ordering system, so I go for that. if it's random-ass delivery and I'm ordering through a site, I might use grubhub if I have a coupon
― mh, Tuesday, 29 October 2019 16:42 (four years ago) link