I dare you to anticipate Joaquin Phoenix in Todd Phillips's JOKER (now with something that may or may not be a SPOILER)

So incidentally how is everyone faring since the Joker gangs started taking over?

Longer lines at Dave and Buster's

incel joker wins by default, since it seems impossible to make a sequel to.

t/s: impossible to make a sequel to vs acting was so awful everyone would rather forget it ever happened

whoever loses, we win

xp I for one appreciate their fresh outsider perspective

Suicide Squad makes Joker look like Network

In the sequel, incel Joker becomes a volcel. Writes itself, really.

So I saw this last night. Not read much of this thread. No idea what's been said and not said, but here's the Letterboxd review I wrote after seeing it:

This is a solid 2.5 out of 5 film.

I’m trying to work out what it is people specifically liked about it, whether there's a wider point or aspect that I've missed.

Having seen countless hot takes on this film from critics and friends, I was conscious of going into the film with too many expectations. Either this was going to blow me away with a clever, multi-layered plot and a serious artistic twist on an old character, or it was going to be a highly insensitive piece of hackwork that treated Batman's greatest villain as a springboard for muddied views on mental health and societal violence...

So I was surprised to find that this film did neither. In effect, I came away feeling underwhelmed, mildly puzzled and with the feeling I'd seen something distinctly... average.

The Guardian-reading snowflake in me was all set to be triggered by its handling of mental health issues or isolated male aggression or gun violence or... something. I wasn’t.. Well not really. This is Gotham after all, a city that walks the tightrope between gritty reality and grim fantasy. So sure, have the Joker be a cracked dude from a background of child abuse, it’s not far fetched. Besides, you'd have to be a special kind of lily to be truly offended by something so milquetoast, or at least one who's never seen Psycho or Taxi Driver or Falling Down or any of the many other films about 'insecure loners' from which this film cribs (and pays tribute to) in spades.

I could see people with actual schizophrenia or severe depression taking umbrage at the idea that their condition is seen as something that could potentially trigger a murder spree. The vast majority of people I've met who are affected by mental health issues are brave and steadfast and trying to cope with things one day at a time. There are definitely questions to be raised about funding for mental health services, and indeed the question is raised in part in this film. There's also the incel issue too, which again this film goes part-way to referencing, and in many ways could be seen as a film about James Holmes, the Aurora Shooter, rather than the Joker himself.

You could read into it all you want and extrapolate all sorts, but I don't have the time or energy to expend on analysing these waters, mostly because the film only really dips its toes in them itself. It’s an action movie set in a fictional world at the end of the day. The Joker's affliction (as far as I know) doesn't exist in the real world, and the Joker’s story is supposed to be sensationalised and harrowing etc, so try as I might I couldn't find it in myself to get terribly upset about it.

The graphic novel-loving Alan Moore stan in me was expecting a rip-roaring intelligent origin story with maybe an underlying comment on society or the human condition that nevertheless didn’t get in the way of an incendiary plotline. Hmmm.. Maybe? Or maybe they set-out to make exactly this kind of film and then had to retro-fit the plot to the Joker character so that it made sense in the Nolan-esque world of Batman we've come to understand in recent years. As an origin story, it left me unfazed. I kept waiting for this incompetent drip to transgress into the infamous criminal mastermind we've come to know, but it never happens. Maybe that's not the idea? Maybe Joker never actually gets to fight Batman and it's all in his head, and actually he's just a mentally ill man living out a fantasy?

The film-buff in me was expecting amazing cinematography, of which I’d say this delivered to a good extent. I mean, nothing fantastic, but decent enough to keep the boring parts from looking tooooo boring.

I was also expecting great acting from Joaquin and indeed there was some GREAT acting from Joaquin and yes he acted his heart out. In fact there wasn't a moment in the film where I wasn't thinking: ‘Isn’t he good at acting, that actor, Joaquin Phoenix with all the acting he does wow what a splendid actor, and how!’. A real actor’s actor that Joaquin. And as a man born with an expression that makes him look like he's permanently about to shit his pants, Joaquin was perfectly cast in this role. Great actor that Joaquin. Five stars at acting.

So yes, good cinematography; good Joaquin being Joaquin; okay plot (if a bit cobbled together from things like V for Vendetta, Eyes Wide Shut, Psycho, Taxi Driver, Falling Down* and a few others); great Joaquin, I mean splendid Joaquin; not much of a point to make in and of itself, unless the point flew past me while I was being distracted by Joaquin; some good scenes and not really boring but a bit predictable and unrevelatory; oh and yes Joaquin acted his heart out didn’t he? Great Joaquin.

An okay film that I would recommend buying in a couple of years' time when the DVD goes on sale.

*PS I really really dislike Falling Down but I like the others.

Lol, everything about splendid Joaquin is otm

The Joaquir

the dance of freedom etc pic.twitter.com/9NT7GYlvBW

— HappyToast ★ (@IamHappyToast) October 23, 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZmq01RFhzI

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/03/world/joker-global-protests-trnd/index.html

fucking try harder, protestors. jesus, lame.

like the guy fawkes masks: can't people be more original?

you know, like in the film

Cool, can't wait til they imitate the other shit

My house didn't need to be not on fire

I might be the only one who remembers this but one thousand years ago just before this film came out there was a moral panic about how it was foretold that its release would cause the trenchcoat mafia to rise from their graves and bring about the end times

It did, they all voted for Trump in 16

#trenchant

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/03/world/joker-global-protests-trnd/index.html

fucking try harder, protestors. jesus, lame.

― akm, Sunday, November 3, 2019 1:12 PM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

solidarity forever, unless the cultural reference is kinda dorky

Expected to hate this, and while I did hate a couple of parts, overall it was worth the time. The final sit-down on De Niro's show was ridiculous, and De Niro and the whole subplot around him--I realize that there's an extended King of Comedy tribute going on--should have been ditched. Phoenix's first laughing fit felt unbearably overwrought, but I adjusted as the film went on. The rest I liked. The scene with the Wall St. guys on the subway was tense and unsettling. When Phoenix isn't laughing, he's very good. Has the score been debated much? I thought it was weird and often great--someone else might find it oppressive. The two famous pop songs...I suspect only I would love those scenes or even feel it worth commenting on them.

I have a few extremely basic questions as to how (or if) the story here jibes with the Burton and Nolan films on a timeline, but I'm just a novice, so I'll look up the answers myself.

It doesn't

the pop stuff is maybe meant to be jarring but didn’t quite jive for me

the score is obviously great, good composer!

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-men-who-still-love-fight-club

I used to rewatch Fight Club a lot and it’s fine but, overall, worse at gauging it’s audience’s ability to read between the large print lines than anything Scorsese ever did.

It’s very pretty. I get the fantasy of looking (but not smelling) like Pitt’s character, and Jared Leto gets beat up. Helena Bonham Carter is attractive. Zeroing out credit debt is cool but doesn’t work like that, although buildings collapsing is shocking. In the end, the fuck-up seems to acknowledge a middle ground, although it’s the last thirty seconds.

The first sign that “Fight Club” might inspire men to do anything other than quote “Fight Club” on their Facebook walls came in the mid-two-thousands...

Can I just

https://www.indiewire.com/video/todd-phillips-cut-zazie-beetz-joker-scene-fate-1202187212/

Recently, when I checked out Palahniuk’s novel from my local library, the librarian, a woman in her thirties, visibly struggled to hide her displeasure

the correct response, shoutout to this librarian

you know, I really enjoyed Lullaby but that's mostly because I've long harbored the fantasy of being able to murder people with my mind

Palahniuk's not a horrible writer, but he's a one-trick pony and iirc has expressed some alt-right/libertarian leanings, although maybe that's just part of his edginess shtick

"I have a few extremely basic questions as to how (or if) the story here jibes with the Burton and Nolan films on a timeline, but I'm just a novice, so I'll look up the answers myself." Yes it has nothing to do with those films. And I'm hjoping it doesn't have a sequel.

Frankly I kind of like this approach that DC may be taking with their characters; they dont' really need to build a universe, it wasn't working anyway. You can use these characters and do one off movies. It's really ok.

Fight Club is a fine novel and also a good film. I have to ignore any cult that has sprung up around it because like all of these things, it seems to me that people who do that aren't really getting the point (see: using Joker masks in big protests).

Can't wait for the Supes movie where he's 48 and doesn't know he has super powers and works as an insurance adjuster with manager Lenny Luthor.

sounds like a significant improvement on visionary director zack snyder's take on the character tbf

Frankly I kind of like this approach that DC may be taking with their characters; they dont' really need to build a universe, it wasn't working anyway. You can use these characters and do one off movies. It's really ok.

― akm, Wednesday, November 6, 2019 8:34 AM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Another way to say it is that DC has moved in this direction not so much as a conscious, strategic choice but because their attempts to ape the MCU model have been inept af.

people wearing Joker masks isn't missing the point, it *is* the point depending on the protest- he only really loses it when he loses his social security

A senior White House official confirmed to Yahoo News that Trump screened 'Joker' for guests including “family, friends, and some staff.”

The senior official said Trump liked the film https://t.co/w7KEGfQEl4 by @hunterw, @BrettRedacted pic.twitter.com/bQfnnViBoC

— Yahoo News (@YahooNews) November 17, 2019

the oval office insider went on to claim that trump's chest pains were 'almost certainly' caused by the movie's twisted take on the iconic character

i guess you could say the joker played... THE TRUMP CARD! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHEHHEHEHEHEEE IT'S THE JOKER!

There’s no possible way that guy can sit and watch a whole movie

Au contraire, he's had a toilet installed front and center in the WH screening room, so

The "toilet" being whichever of his family members he's angry at at that particular moment.

hope you guys who bought tickets are looking forward to LEX in 2020, Captain Cold in 21 and grim-and-gritty Jonni DC in 22
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/joker-sequel-works-as-todd-phillips-eyes-more-dc-origin-movies-1256255

Fingers crossed for Crazy Quilt

Calling it now: minimum of two Oscar nods.

― Furter-Bursting Tater Squirter (Old Lunch), Monday, October 7, 2019 1:06 PM (three months ago) bookmarkflaglink

TBH, this power of mine is more curse than blessing.

Joaq deserves a nom, BP for sure too
Gerwig got robbed for director

Just saw this. I think it had too many memes & thinkpieces in front of it for it to have any impact. It wasn't bad, in the sense of being badly made, but it seemed pretty pointless and if it was meant to be entertaining the only sense of entertainment I could liken it to is a horror movie where you're just like "ugh oh god ok I guess" the whole time. If it was supposed to be about the Joker, from a Comic Book Guy perspective it was a whiff since this Joker wasn't clever or even mischievous, just a witless psychopath from beginning to end. Really repetitive and no ending to speak of. Had I not been trying to see all the Oscar nominees I would have been fine to give this a miss.

It wasn't directed.

Yeah it's the usual reading things that Phillips wasn't actually intelligent enough to willfully put in there.

they seemed to want to use a TV-length character arc in a two hour feature film which just doesn't work. even in the train scene, he quickly pivots from killing a guy in what might questionably be self-defense, before immediately committing murder, including pursuing a guy at Usain Bolt speeds and shooting him in the back. Might have been a little more effective if he'd only killed one guy, in self defense, as that's quite a leap.

the movement also made no sense. yes, movements sprout up all the time, but a bunch of clowns assembled and grew in numbers and began holding demonstrations due to what they could only *assume* were Arthur's motives. it was some Life of Brian shit. usually those type of movements need some form of charismatic leadership to grow at the rate the Clowns in Training did in a short time. it quickly goes from a handful of doofuses in masks to hundreds of people basically rioting in downtown Gotham.

he's a demagogue who hasn't even addressed his congregation until he goes on TV and blows DeNiro's face off and suddenly it's war in the streets.

xpost lol

With some time to process it, I pretty much agree with you Sparkle Motion, but I had a more negative opinion right after watching it given every one of my friends raved about it

the only real themes in the movie were "people are nasty to each other, including me, and that's why I snapped", which is...not very interesting, nor did it make sense, since fairly obviously, it wasn't society's cruelty, it was his own neglectful/abusive mother and her equally abusive boyfriend who were more to blame for his plight. his entire neurological condition came from a beating he suffered at their hands!

this is just a comic book movie, so no it doesn't require these heavy themes, but if yr gonna pretend you're 'transcending' the genre, you might wanna put on a harness first.