PMs change and lol we're all gonna die (but brexit will never end)

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there's got to be a crowd of labour ones who will be tempted with the proviso that the alternative could be no deal

Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 17 October 2019 16:52 (four years ago) link

cornynbs obviously doesn't have them disciplined well either so he won't be able to whip them effectively

Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 17 October 2019 16:53 (four years ago) link

whip has held up on deal votes so far

be goose, do crimes (||||||||), Thursday, 17 October 2019 16:55 (four years ago) link

I expect there will be the odd Skinnock but hoping not many

Xia Nu del Vague (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 17 October 2019 16:55 (four years ago) link

I can understand ppl getting jittery but Johnson will need 20+ Lab MPs. The Tories that joined other parties won't back this deal either.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 17 October 2019 17:07 (four years ago) link

it’ll be close but i think you’re right. and i’m not convinced all tories will vote for it either.

But now that they have a deal to vote on, the quiet caveats continue. Ruth Smeeth has repeated the letter’s proviso on environmental policy and workers’ rights; Gloria de Piero, another signatory of the letter, said recently that: “at no point have I said I will back the Boris Johnson deal and the more details that emerge about it, the less likely I am to vote for it.” Everyone except retirign MPs will worry about losing the party whip, while balancing whether a failure to back a deal would result in losing their seat anyway.


https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/10/will-pro-deal-labour-mps-back-boris-johnson

Fizzles, Thursday, 17 October 2019 17:13 (four years ago) link

there's got to be a crowd of labour ones who will be tempted with the proviso that the alternative could be no deal


Depends if some of them break cover and say they don’t support it - early signs not promising on that front

gyac, Thursday, 17 October 2019 17:17 (four years ago) link

ah right i didn't realize the letter writers had reneged already

Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 17 October 2019 17:22 (four years ago) link

They haven't though.

Michael Oliver of Penge Wins £5 (Tom D.), Thursday, 17 October 2019 17:24 (four years ago) link

Depends if some of them break cover and say they don’t support it - early signs not promising on that front

OTM. Not a peep from any of them today.

Michael Oliver of Penge Wins £5 (Tom D.), Thursday, 17 October 2019 17:26 (four years ago) link

yeah, they’re keeping their options open. like xyz and nv i don’t think the numbers are there but it will be close.

Fizzles, Thursday, 17 October 2019 17:26 (four years ago) link

Whether they would rather stick the boot in Boris or Corbyn is very much a moot point.

Michael Oliver of Penge Wins £5 (Tom D.), Thursday, 17 October 2019 17:28 (four years ago) link

If Corbyn withdraws the whip they may not have much choice - but they may find other reasons not to support the deal. Important that Skinnock was arguing for the kind of thing discussed between Labour and the Tories which was more palatable to labour MPs in terms of workers rights but probably toxic to Tories.

gyac, Thursday, 17 October 2019 17:33 (four years ago) link

I think Kinnock getting on tv to condemn Ellman's CLP doesn't really bode well

plax (ico), Thursday, 17 October 2019 17:42 (four years ago) link

but then you'd hope he's one of the dimmest

plax (ico), Thursday, 17 October 2019 17:42 (four years ago) link

Separate issue.

looooool, this is genius - varadkar essentially leveraging what the ERG failed to, in the knowledge that there is no way in hell that the UK is going to strike any substantive free trade deals post-Brexit that aren't just replicating deals it had as part of the EU https://t.co/ImqjBKXUiG

— tyron, the creator (@TyronWilson) October 17, 2019

gyac, Thursday, 17 October 2019 17:42 (four years ago) link

I can understand ppl getting jittery but Johnson will need 20+ Lab MPs. The Tories that joined other parties won't back this deal either.

They only need 8 from figures I've seen.

Michael Oliver of Penge Wins £5 (Tom D.), Thursday, 17 October 2019 17:51 (four years ago) link

And that is most certainly possible.

Michael Oliver of Penge Wins £5 (Tom D.), Thursday, 17 October 2019 17:52 (four years ago) link

juncker talking out his arse and eu are amenable to another extension apparently

Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 17 October 2019 18:09 (four years ago) link

On an entirely different note:

Finchley & Golders Green Westminster voting intention:

LDEM: 41% (+34)
CON: 29% (-18)
LAB: 25% (-19)
GRN: 3% (+1)
BREX: 2% (+2)

via @Survation, 02 Oct
Chgs. w/ 2017 result.

— Britain Elects (@britainelects) October 16, 2019

gyac, Thursday, 17 October 2019 18:39 (four years ago) link

This is the one with ‘named candidates’ despite the fact that only the Lib Dems have named a candidate, isn’t it?

Srinivasaraghavan VONCataraghavan (ShariVari), Thursday, 17 October 2019 18:42 (four years ago) link

Yes, though Tory candidate is going to be the incumbent?

gyac, Thursday, 17 October 2019 18:43 (four years ago) link

Stephen Bush has written about the numbers and thinks its unlikely to pass

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/10/boris-johnson-has-brexit-deal-chances-parliament-passing-it-are-slim

gyac, Thursday, 17 October 2019 18:48 (four years ago) link

lol at this (from a different NS article about pro deal Labour MPs):

Such has been their apparent desperation for a deal, many of them even made warm noises about Boris Johnson’s “two-border” proposals on customs for Northern Ireland, until they were given a slap-down by Irish Labour, and it sunk in that the Republic of Ireland and the EU would never accept those proposals anyway. So far, so keen.

gyac, Thursday, 17 October 2019 19:01 (four years ago) link

gyac, head to ILM...

imago, Thursday, 17 October 2019 19:10 (four years ago) link

omg

I had gone to do some hoovering

Anyway, Stephen Bush has written another thing today, not in the NS (thank fuck)

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/the-governments-dismissive-treatment-of-the-dup-is-how-we-got-into-this-brexit-mess-816224

The trickiness started when Theresa May turned down a rare opportunity to address the Dáil, an honour rarely extended to foreign leaders, right at the start of the Brexit process. At the same time as May was turning down offers to address Irish lawmakers, a vital interest group as far as securing a EU-UK trade deal goes, she was jetting across the world to address American Senators, in a bid to secure a US-UK trade deal after Brexit.

As far as diplomatic blunders go, this was the equivalent of refusing to spend money on driving lessons so you can make the payments on the Ferrari you plan to ride around in as soon as you get your license.

gyac, Thursday, 17 October 2019 19:36 (four years ago) link

no tories will vote against? ur having a giraffe, chuwumbawumba

💥 @FinancialTimes analysis of the Commons numbers ahead of Saturday's big vote.

With caveats and a lots of undecideds, we reckon 318 MPs could vote for the deal, 321 against. Without the DUP, Boris needs to win over at least 2 MPs to pass his new deal.https://t.co/kdp1C0PzO9 pic.twitter.com/5uI4ffrM4I

— Sebastian Payne (@SebastianEPayne) October 17, 2019

be goose, do crimes (||||||||), Thursday, 17 October 2019 19:41 (four years ago) link

bush in the telegraph:

One of the mistakes that people like me made was to write off Boris Johnson's chances of becoming Prime Minister. Why did we do it? Because we didn't listen carefully enough to Conservative MPs. The average Tory MP, when asked about Johnson, would say that they were unconvinced that he had the makings of a great PM, and that the Conservative Party's future lay with Jeremy Hunt or Sajid Javid.

But then their eyes would light up like hubcaps and they would tell you about how, when Johnson visited their association, passers-by, not even members, would stop him and ask for selfies. In the end, faced with a tough election, they opted for the party's one genuine out-and-out star.

Now the PM may be on the verge of securing a deal with the EU, but his chances of getting Parliament to pass it are far from certain.

The DUP's preferred approach is to decide its position internally and then to follow the line in public. Labour has a similar, but subtly different approach: they air their dirty laundry in public but, just as the DUP does, most of the party's MPs fall in line with the leadership's position in the Commons, at least on Brexit. Will it happen again?

There is a group of Labour MPs who say they are willing and ready to vote for a deal, and 19 of them even went so far as to write to the EU Commission saying they were in the market for an accord. How seriously should we take them? About as seriously as we should have taken those Tory MPs who vowed they would never make Johnson PM.

Not all the Labour MPs who are in the market for a deal represent heavily Leave seats, or are concerned about keeping them at the next election. Some, like Jim Fitzpatrick, who represents the heavily Remain Poplar and Limehouse, and voted to Remain, believe that the referendum result, and Labour's promise to honour it in 2017, must be upheld, while others, like Kate Hoey, who represents similarly pro-Remain Vauxhall, are committed Brexiteers.

Others, like Kevin Barron, represent a pro-Leave seat, but plan to retire and as a result have no fear of the voters. MPs in the Fitzpatrick-Hoey-Barron group are the most reliable set of votes for a deal, because they want Brexit to happen and have no electoral consequences to worry about.

The problem is that most committed Labour Leavers are also longstanding members of the Left. They haven't spent decades outside the corridors of power only to risk Jeremy Corbyn's hold on the party by voting for a Brexit deal negotiated by Johnson. This group tends to believe that they can trust Corbyn not to stop Brexit. They may be wrong but their views mean that they aren't going to vote for Johnson's deal.

But the bigger group are MPs who are not Corbynites but are not retiring either - they want a future after Brexit. They know - as does the leadership - that if Labour MPs' votes put Brexit through, Jo Swinson will run round the country telling people that Labour facilitated Brexit.

The leadership will almost certainly make sure that it punishes anyone who votes for Brexit - and Labour would-be rebels will know that this is the case. So they will find an excuse to protect their interests, just as Conservative MPs - who once vowed that they couldn't possibly look past their great performer's drawbacks - discovered that, eventually, Johnson's star power mattered more than whatever doubts they had about him.

Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 17 October 2019 19:41 (four years ago) link

ty for outing yourself as a telegraph subscriber jim

gyac, Thursday, 17 October 2019 19:48 (four years ago) link

there are other ways

plax (ico), Thursday, 17 October 2019 19:50 (four years ago) link

Given that Telegraph premium content includes Tom Harris and Charles Moore, I’ll probably be better off not knowing

gyac, Thursday, 17 October 2019 19:53 (four years ago) link

i have access to factiva!

Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 17 October 2019 19:53 (four years ago) link

Fair enough! But seriously, thank you for sharing.

gyac, Thursday, 17 October 2019 19:56 (four years ago) link

Also I didn’t see if this catastrophic take had been posted earlier

I only started coming to work by tube because of Greta Thunberg. And now I run the risk of the train being hijacked by the lunatic fringe of Extinction Rebellion. Would they rather we all drove? Targeting commuters on public transport is a staggeringly stupid move.

— James O'Brien (@mrjamesob) October 17, 2019



honestly even if I was rich, why the fuck would I drive in London? Seems like a shit experience.

gyac, Thursday, 17 October 2019 19:58 (four years ago) link

Having problems believing lachrymose Ulster unionists' shock and surprise that the English don't care that much about the Union and care even less about Northern Ireland. Are they stupid or what?

Michael Oliver of Penge Wins £5 (Tom D.), Thursday, 17 October 2019 20:00 (four years ago) link

Senior Labour source suggests to me that the party’s National Executive Committee will bar any Labour MP who votes for Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal from standing again, if the Whip isn’t withdrawn first

— Owen Jones🌹 (@OwenJones84) October 17, 2019

calzino, Thursday, 17 October 2019 21:39 (four years ago) link

😍

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 17 October 2019 21:45 (four years ago) link

With a bit of luck that'll get rid of a few more unwanted dregs

Xia Nu del Vague (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 17 October 2019 21:48 (four years ago) link

Ronnie Campbell is out then. And Dennis Skinner I assume.

Michael Oliver of Penge Wins £5 (Tom D.), Thursday, 17 October 2019 21:54 (four years ago) link

anonymous sources are good again

nashwan, Thursday, 17 October 2019 21:56 (four years ago) link

Understand Labour MPs will not lose whip if they back PM's deal on Saturday

— Nick Eardley (@nickeardleybbc) October 17, 2019

be goose, do crimes (||||||||), Thursday, 17 October 2019 21:57 (four years ago) link

they're bad again sorry

be goose, do crimes (||||||||), Thursday, 17 October 2019 21:57 (four years ago) link

Mark Field not standing, got it in the neck from the Womens Eq

nashwan, Thursday, 17 October 2019 21:57 (four years ago) link

it's happening

Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 17 October 2019 22:00 (four years ago) link

Thinking Mark Field will vote against, this timing’s a bit on the nose.

coup de twat (suzy), Thursday, 17 October 2019 22:09 (four years ago) link

I don't think any Tories will vote against it. Dominic Grieve maybe, but that's it.

Michael Oliver of Penge Wins £5 (Tom D.), Thursday, 17 October 2019 22:12 (four years ago) link

Matt Hancock getting a rinsing on QT, waiting for Fifi to hit him with ‘they’re laaaaaaaughing at you!’

coup de twat (suzy), Thursday, 17 October 2019 22:15 (four years ago) link

Ronnie Campbell is out then. And Dennis Skinner I assume.


Ronnie Campbell isn’t standing in the next election

gyac, Thursday, 17 October 2019 22:16 (four years ago) link

Just as well as they've got a combined age of 3000.

(xp) Switched over, saw Martin Daubney, switched back.

Michael Oliver of Penge Wins £5 (Tom D.), Thursday, 17 October 2019 22:18 (four years ago) link

This wiki page is good for an up to date list of MPs not standing next time btw: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_United_Kingdom_general_election

gyac, Thursday, 17 October 2019 22:21 (four years ago) link


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