What are Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Flaws?

I think the bigger and more important thing about the endorsement isn't the pointlessness of looking for upset Warren supporters, which is just silly.

Its more about any Warren supporters who might be surprised and wondering why. And thats a plus, regardless of what it leads to

Do you really think it will be surprising to that many? It's not like people don't know who Bernie Sanders is, and what he stands for. They just don't like it.

Logically, of course it shouldn't be a surprise. But people often don't work in that way, so yes I'm sure there will be a not insignificant number of people that genuinely are surprised. People like my colleague, who thinks UK centrist politician Jess Phillips and AOC are analogous because 'bolshy'. People make candidates, all candidates, into things that they aren't, and events puncture illusions

I tend to lean Warren over Sanders but I trust "the squad" to speak for me 100% so yeah, this endorsement gets me to switch

I think we're talking past each other. I really don't see that many Warren voters as being surprised that AOC was closer to Sanders, and the reason that she gave for it. I think most of them just prefer Warren. Sanders was much more well-known at the beginning of the proces, and Warren managed to move past him anyway. I don't think it's because they didn't know who these people were.

It didn't change my mind, but I'm glad they did it because now they'll force Warren to clarify her vaguer points. If she gets elected, I want them to nag the hell out of her.

Sanders and Warren are not the same. Sanders is closer to AOC’s positions and political worldview. Why would she have ever endorsed Warren?

It’s cool that Warren is mainsreaming some of these ideas that were still seen as outre, but she is not as left as Sanders on many issues, including foreign policy. And it is (of course) meaningful that she says stuff like “for most of american history, workers benefited from corporate profits in a fair manner”

Sanders and Warren are not the same. Sanders is closer to AOC’s positions and political worldview. Why would she have ever endorsed Warren?

― treeship., 16. oktober 2019 16:16 (thirty-two seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

Because Warren is going to win, and Sanders is not :)

(this is not a fact, but it's definitely something AOC will have thought about before she endorsed)

Frederik B playin' FAMILY FEUD!

The media take is already: Good news for Warren, the commie terrorist lovers didn’t endorse her

― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Wednesday, October 16, 2019 7:37 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

This doesn't make sense at all to me. I feel like the Squad generally has broader support than Bernie? Like, there are a lot of AOC/Squad fans who are not at all DSA types but are excited about women of color who firmly Stand Up to Trump. This includes plenty of people who voted for Hillary in the 2016 primary and who support Warren now. I've already seen expressions of disappointment on Twitter that Bernie got their coveted endorsement instead.

I guess it's good news for Warren if it means that Trump can't tar her with that association, but I also feel like a Squad endorsement of Warren could've allowed her to consolidate support from Squad fans who are otherwise considering Sanders or Harris.

I wish people would stop treating Twitter as being representative of anything real

OTM

"Liberals I hate read on Twitter" is not an actual political constituency.

OK, so do you think my impression is off-base?

I mean, I guess I count myself among this constituency -- I'm v. enthusiastic about AOC (and the Squad in general) but support Warren. That said, I'm not surprised by the endorsement.

A lot of the ppl who "like" AOC, as with most Americans who like things, are short on details.

Well, you'd know.

jaymc, I think it largely comes down to who you follow.

I haven't seen anyone complaining about these endorsements, but I've seen a ton of people saying there's someone complaining about them.

Here's one (which is obviously just one data point):

Sad to hear that most of the squad will be endorsing fucking Bernie. I hope Ayanna Pressley doesn't go in on this.

— Laura Bogart (@LDBogart) October 16, 2019

It's worth nothing once again that the majority of Bernie backers don't "hate" Warren.

FWIW, I don't hate Bernie, either. I'd be happy if he got the nomination.

yeah if Warren gets the nom I'm sure they'll be rallying hard behind her

Anyway, am I wrong that the Squad has a broader base of support than Bernie does? Or are they simply too "divisive" for their endorsement to have a positive effect for anyone other than Bernie?

jaymc i don't think you're wrong, at least not anecdotally. one of the biggest in-the-tank-for-hillary people i know is a huge aoc fan

I think it will have a positive effect, but maybe not enough to give him the boost he needs to win this thing.

I suspect the number of Bernard Brothers who will be pissed if Warren gets the nom is roughly the same as the number of Squad fans who are mad that they endorsed Bernie.

I have no basis for this, but it seems like a good thing to say.

They have a big reach and base of support yes, but agreed, obviously not enough to swing anything (ultimately, its where the Biden votes go once he's out thats more important)

Lol, Biden's imminent exit from the race is the silliest point that keeps popping up on these threads.

Biden's Imminent Exit has never popped up once on any of these threads!

Not true, although this may be the first time in the AOC thread

But it isn't on this thread either!

Oh, I see, you're just being pedantic.

I don't mean to be! I think there is an important distinction between "Biden will eventually drop out" and "Biden will be dropping out imminently"

For the record, i don't think Biden is going anywhere soon. Its obviously an opinion and I may be wrong, but I don't consider the distinction between the two to be pedantry, as I believe one instance to be likely and the other instance to be implausible

Not sure what's so likely about it at all though. I suspect that Biden will only drop if it is down to him and one other candidate, and it becomes clear he can't win. Yes, it's possible he'll crash and burn sooner, but I wouldn't bank on it.

Biden is going to win

Not sure what's so likely about it at all though. I suspect that Biden will only drop if it is down to him and one other candidate, and it becomes clear he can't win. Yes, it's possible he'll crash and burn sooner, but I wouldn't bank on it.

Well that may be true of course. I think his numbers are largely predicated on people thinking other people like him and that rests on him being a frontrunner, once he is no longer a frontrunner that edifice crumbles and his numbers tank.

But in terms of the thread(s) its a more general sense of relative frustration at being misunderstood, and thinking "am I really that bad at saying what I mean?". Has happened a few time today, but yes on this one in retrospect I should have used the word 'eventually' to try reduce ambiguity!

a biden win is a trump win

Oh we're onto the equations part of the thread now

have Biden's numbers ever gone up at any point in the last few months? seems like the more he does the less people actually like him

Biden's numbers belong in the Dem primary thread!

or the Biden thread

We should not be discussing Biden¨s numbers on this thread, but if we ARE discussing Biden's numbers, then there is a 538 article about them, because of course there is: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/elizabeth-warren-rise-hasnt-come-at-joe-biden-expense/

"don't reply all guys!"

/Replyall

she's good

AOC kind of tying Zuckerberg in knots here on political ads.

Q: Can I run ads telling voters the wrong election date?
Z: No.
Q: So you are fact-checking politics ads?
Z: For specific things.
Q: Can I run ads in GOP primaries saying they backed my Green New Deal?
Z: I don't know.

— Pete Schroeder (@peteschroeder) October 23, 2019

excellent

still completely befuddled. pic.twitter.com/NZTkikiOs4

— Timothy Burke (@bubbaprog) October 23, 2019

I get the sense this is more useful as a strand of the argument that Facebook is a malign force that needs to be broken up than evidence that it can / should be reformed with a stronger commitment to fact-checking. Putting such an appalling corporation in charge of filtering news for perceived accuracy without addressing the underlying power it has would be a terrible misstep.

The antitrust legislation Warren is promising is the best part of her platform and her public analysis of tech despotism is something the squad can easily get behind.

Love that Zuckerberg is getting eaten alive from a girl who went to BU and ended up working in a bar for years in this clip. Her triumph over millennial disappointment is definitely a huge part of her appeal.

Crikey - AOC grilled Zuckerberg? What a tremendous confrontation!

strong Tom Wamsgans vibes when Zuck said "I think lying is bad"

Zuckerberg probably can cite a higher IQ than AOC, but AOC has the advantage on him, because of her superior clarity about how intelligence should be used and what for.