2019 Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Nominees

The desire for more genre inclusion may be laudable, even well-intentioned. But as time goes by, I suspect hof noms will increasingly mine the same fairly limited pool of old material until insignificance.

People keep making music, of course, but there is no way to magically cause more music to have been made in 1964 or 1978 or 1985. Music history is a deep well but it is not inexhaustible.

So I will darkly enjoy watching this thread deteriorate as ppl discuss the relative merits of Fastball and Tiffany and Third Eye Blind

Foo Fighters are eligible next year?

They seem to be doing a fairly good job of keeping up with the times, not sure why they'd confine themselves to old material?

morrisp they don't confine themselves, no, but to me it looks like they try to pull something from Bucket A, something from Bucket B, something from Bucket C.

"O wait we need a neglected influential person who died in poverty and deserves long-overdue recognition"

"O wait we need a 70s metal act to make up for the years we snubbed metal"

"O wait we need an OG rap act to make up for the years we snubbed rap"

"O wait we need to recognize a disco diva to make up for rock's appalling history of misogyny and racism and homophobia"

"O wait we need a jam band or else we'll lose that audience segment"

"O wait we haven't gotten any synthpop in there yet"

Eventually it will all have to either (a) compress into only a very narrow range of eligibility, or (b) run out of good choices for every possible bucket.

I was very sad when the Doobie Brothers died in poverty. (I think your analysis is pretty accurate, YMP.)

T. Rex! Didn't think anyone so purely British would get in (only four Top 100 singles in the States, only one Top 10)--good job.

(Nine Inch Nails and the Doobie Brothers--kind of ridiculous.)

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/nine-inch-nails-notorious-big-whitney-houston-rock-hall-of-fame-937737/?fbclid=IwAR29TD0nirK884REeAlrGbmuvUlC35XZzwusQo62g43-spq5Z-L0bPoZGIE

Doobie Brothers give me a break

Pretty sure the HOF reasoned "If Soundgarden can't even beat Pavement in an ILM, we sure as hell can't let 'em in here."

*ILM poll

Nine Inch Nails making it over Kraftwerk is sort of incredible peak HoF cluelessness

better NIN than scraping even further down the 70s-80s barrel (the doobies at least have a couple of jams)

NIN totally deserve it, and them making it in before Kraftwerk, while wrong, is no worse than Depeche Mode doing the same this year.

idk how you can have something called the rock and roll hall of fame and not include thin lizzy, t. rex, and judas priest

― flopsy bird (voodoo chili), Tuesday, October 15, 2019 8:27 AM (three months ago) bookmarkflaglink

1/3 ain't great, but ain;t bad

NIN totally deserve it, and them making it in before Kraftwerk, while wrong, is no worse than Depeche Mode doing the same this year.

Agree, also have a hard time getting worked up about the more famous band making it into a Hall of Fame.

Doobie Brothers are more than deserving. Pete Townshend put it best...

“I’ll tell you who gets a good sound in the studio,” Pete Townshend of the Who once told a reporter, “The Doobie Brothers. Their songs seem to just pop out of the radio speakers and grab at you.”

Now they need to get Pat Benetar in. People do not remember just how many hits she had. Far more than Stevie Nicks.

Still very surprised Motorhead aren't in - they're pretty much the definition of a rock & roll band.

(along with AC/DC and the Ramones)

xpost I think there was some pushback because she didn't write or play on any of those hits, and she is not that great of a singer.

I'm sorry, what

imo. I like her fine, but I don't think she's as distinctive as Joan Jett or Stevie Nicks, for example.

If there’s a surprise in this year’s group of inductees it is that just one of the artists chosen — the Doobie Brothers — reached the top five of the hall’s fan voting. The other most popular nominees were the Dave Matthews Band, which logged just over 1 million fan votes followed by Pat Benatar (882,000 votes), the Doobies (nearly 785,000), Soundgarden (just under 723,000) and Judas Priest (675,000).

xpost I'm not worked up I'm just complaining about the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame on a thread that consists of nothing but

I mean, there's a big caveat with all this bullshit that apparently everyone will eventually get in. Someone much smarter than me can probably write a mathematical formula determining with some degree of accuracy at what point literally every act will be in the Rock Hall. Like, if x=y+ time divided by r, then Nickelback will be in by 2051 or something.

I concede I understand why Motorhead might not make it in any time soon. Lemmy (and by extension the band) is absolutely iconic, but unlike a band like AC/DC or the Ramones or even Judas Priest, I don't think many people know much more than "Ace of Spades" (tbh I know I don't, and I've saw the band live a few times!). Motorhead might be more like the MC5, where the *idea* of the band is greater than the sum of its parts?

I think a big problem with the MC5 is they didn't spin off an Iggy or Lou Reed to keep the legend going.

one would think that Dave Marsh would have thrown his weight around for the Five, but he is no longer on the nominating committee. And one cannot stress enough that having management with juice is of enormous import; the Doobies are managed by Azoff. It means something for Doobies bottom line to be in the Hall, as it does for say, Chicago; whereas I don't think that the estates of Whitney or Christopher Wallace could be that concerned.

this website is very useful for tea leaf reading… https://futurerocklegends.com/

im not mad at them ignoring the fan vote tbh, there needs to be at least a little bit of critical judgment here, or else you might as well turn the museum into a printed-out compilation of every Billboard Top Rock Albums chart.

also, Jon landau, alongside Azoff, will join other Hall Poobahs like Wenner and Ertegun in non-performing categories this year…

xp I don’t think there should even be a fan vote!

the fans should start their own hall of fame. with blackjack. and hookers.

one would think that Dave Marsh would have thrown his weight around for the Five, but he is no longer on the nominating committee.

I'm sure he did -- the 5 were nominated a few times while Marsh was still on the committee -- but I think he only had so much weight to throw around. After all, he said he would do everything possible to keep Kiss out of the HOF, and they managed to get in.

It means something for Doobies bottom line to be in the Hall, as it does for say, Chicago; whereas I don't think that the estates of Whitney or Christopher Wallace could be that concerned.

Interesting, and something I understand well in terms of the Baseball HOF but not as it relates to this one. When a baseball player goes in, that player immediately is able to charge more for autographs at card shows--much, much more. (Happy to say I've never paid for an autograph in my life.) I'm guessing the Doobie Brothers or whoever can now attach "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Inductee" whenever they play a show at Casino Rama or wherever they're playing, and that that helps sell tickets?

xpost I think there was some pushback because she didn't write or play on any of those hits, and she is not that great of a singer.

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, January 15, 2020 9:45 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol ok half the people in the RRHOF didn't write or play any of their hits so that's not even a factor. (Nobody is making this complaint about e.g. Tina Turner or, uh, Elvis.) And if you're going to bring up Joan Jett as a point of comparison, the vast majority of music listeners know her not only for songs she didn't write, but for actual cover songs.

But the idea that Benatar is not a great singer is absolutely preposterous. She had years of opera training as a kid, has a phenomenal range, and brings an incredible amount of feel.

I think a big problem with the MC5 is they didn't spin off an Iggy or Lou Reed to keep the legend going.

― a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, January 15, 2020 9:13 AM (fifty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I love this so much

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyrcUlX7sPg

Plus I don't care what someone did and didn't write -- 6 platinum and 3 gold albums, and 15 top 40 singles is, as Kevin Costner says in "Bull Durham," a career.

I'm guessing the Doobie Brothers or whoever can now attach "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Inductee" whenever they play a show at Casino Rama or wherever they're playing, and that that helps sell tickets?

― clemenza, Wednesday, January 15, 2020 10:59 AM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I would be pretty surprised if that tipped the scales for anyone on the fence about whether or not to go see the Doobies in 2020.

xpost

how many of the classic R&B performers in the hall fail the "didn't write or play on the songs" test? probably 90% at least

I was going to say that Fred Berry should induct the Doobies, but unfortunately he passed away in 2003.

xp pretty much anyone inducted on the Motown label not named Marvin Gaye or Smokey Robinson

or Stevie obvs

Many of the Motown performers were exceptional singers, imo. I don't care about Pat Benatar one way or the other, the whole Rock Hall thing is stupid, but in no way would I consider her an exceptional singer. I don't know what she has going for her except a handful of big hits to her name, and by that standard just about anybody who charts more than a couple of times is going to get in.

I don't care about Pat Benatar one way or the other, the whole Rock Hall thing is stupid, but in no way would I consider her an exceptional singer. I don't know what she has going for her except a handful of big hits to her name, and by that standard just about anybody who charts more than a couple of times is going to get in.

Benatar has five platinum albums (Crimes Of Passion and Precious time were quadruple and double platinum, respectively), three gold albums, and 15 Top 40 hits, including four Top Ten hits. By any measure she is a major artist. And as mentioned above, she has a massive voice and extensive formal training.

great singer obv

she is not that great of a singer.

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, January 15, 2020 7:45 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

amazing

I don't think she's a bad singer!

I mean, by all of the above standards Bon Jovi belongs in there too, but I think Bon Jovi sucks. I like Pat Benatar a lot more than I like Bon Jovi.

I dunno, I think in my brain I apply the vague standard of impact and influence.

Again, whole system is stupid and silly! But there has to be some standard, right? Otherwise everyone gets in. Should Rick Springfield be in there? Sure! How about Orleans? Sure! Pablo Cruise? Sure! And so on.

What standard does Joan Jett meet that Pat Benatar doesn't?

joan jett rocks

how is this hard

"Just" banging drums, gtfo with that. *You* bang on a drum for 23-minutes, it's hard work! There's a reason Ringo's All-Star Band tours with another drummer, and it's because Ringo doesn't want to work, because work is hard. Besides, imagine the drum union overtime fees alone!

Hmm. Maybe if they switched off drummers, and limited the amount of banging each could do? There are a lot of drummers in the Hall of Fame. That could circumvent union policy *and* prevent anyone from doing too much work.

*You* bang on a drum for 23-minutes, it's hard work!

he doesn't wanna work, he just wants to bang on the drum 'all day.' banging on a drum 'all day' is necessarily more work than banging on a drum for '23 minutes.' but that just what he wants to do.

You ever heard anyone bang on a drum for 23 minutes? It might as well be all day. There's a reason I love Led Zeppelin but never listen to Zeppelin bootlegs.

I played the role of the pulse for a performance of In C and I just played quarter notes like a robot for way over 23 minutes
it was quite relaxing tbh

yeah banging a drum for 23 minutes is actually quite meditative

that's pretty much my daily practice regime

xxpost But did you bang out those quarter notes, or just sort of gently tap them out?

i varied in intensity to create some dynamics, of course

that's pretty much my daily practice regime
i play drums for 23 min straight all the time honestly, it's not that big of a deal! brad otm

Lol at any of you taking this seriously. Love you all.

You dorks.

Todd Rundgren is annoying af

^must be an EMPLOYER

Proud of my nerdery!!
Regarding Todd Rundgren I had a teacher in hs who was a superfan and decorated her room w photos of him, which was no small thing in the early 90s. I never understood it but appreciated her enthusiasm.

Like I said before, he deserves to be in for his production alone! New York Dolls, Badfinger, XTC, Psychedelic Furs, Grand Funk Railroad, Meat Loaf, many of whom had huge or unlikely hits with him behind the boards.

As a solo artist ... "Something/Anything" is pretty cool, not that familiar with everything else.

I don't have the list in front of me or anything but I'm guessing if I looked at great rock producers who should be in the hall of fame who aren't Rundgren wouldn't be top 20

Yeah, but I bet many of them are in the hall already!

Though just looking now it seems that Eno isn't in, and has been eligible since 1999. So yeah, stupid rock hall is stupid, it's a no-win.

The Shawn Cassidy album he produced is tight!!

Rundgren