Big Thief - Two Hands

caryn is a woman yes

Haha my mistake for assuming someone who would unironically use the phrase “my charges” was a man

but where is the 'hype' here?

i dunno about hype, i think i might have heard of them before but didn't really know anything about them—a journalist teased the super-positive pitchfork review also in super positive terms and i took a listen. that journalist, along with what was just said here, seemed to be keyed to the idea of the band/records being special moreso than good, which is i think where the potential for critical disproportion comes in.

what's this all about? I don't have three minutes

This B*g Th*ef thing is the emperor's new clothes of 2019 rock, don't even think of @-ing me

— cganz (@mehpatrol) October 15, 2019

Egregious bait works best.

seemed to be keyed to the idea of the band/records being special moreso than good, which is i think where the potential for critical disproportion comes in.

does "special" not imply and include "good"? the feeling i get when i listen to their records is that something is transpiring in their interplay that other bands will likely be unable to repeat. to me that's special

it does imply and include good but i don't think being special is just the same as being good but at a higher point of intensity

if they would just have more than one rhythm my feeling would be different i'm sure

i understand the job of critics, but i hate it when they think / talk like their opinion is fact. hate it, hate it, hate it.

who gives a flying fuck what theoretical Pitchfork writers are supposedly going to think about this record 10 years from now?

people who post on the pitchfork is dumb thread about the 2010s retrospective pitchfork publishes in 2029

I'm proud of myself for not looking at that list, therapy is working

it's your privilege that lets you stay insulated from best-of lists, some people don't have that luxury

hahaha

irl lol

understand the job of critics, but i hate it when they think / talk like their opinion is fact. hate it, hate it, hate it.

― alpine static,

Example?

Pitchfork's application of the Ludovico Technique was probably a bridge too far, but that's where we are now

lol j.

xxp that cganz tweet from above ("i have lectured my charges...") seems like a relevant one

Arguments like this are stupid as shit and not worth engaging in, but it's particularly grating with Big Thief where (1) I discovered the band by accident, having no idea whatsoever who they were (no "hype" played into it) and (2) they have been my favorite contemporary band for the past couple of years. I love their music on a really deep level, and if they're not ROCK AND ROLL enough for you, fine, but honestly just fuck off. Don't tell other people what they feel.

luv 2 be a twitter bluecheck w/no name or identifying details

yeah and on that note who is this person, am I supposed to know who they are?

The tweet is dumb, Big Thief barely warrants a takedown bc I mean whose oxygen are they really stealing, and anyway as someone who mostly comes away from Next Big Thing indie with a shrug, I took to this band immediately with the first album. Her voice never bothered me but I also have built up immunity after years of listening to Neil Young.

everyone self selects their Twitter bubble so what seems like an overbearing national discourse on Big Thief is basically like 20k nerds and no one gives a shit

the tweeter in question is a music editor at the nyt

Also, "emperor's new clothes" is just a weird criticism to make of them in particular even if you don't like them? Emperor's new clothes makes me think of something more like, IDK, that absurd overwrought orchestral project that Jack White did, lots of bluster and not much substance. Big Thief's music is obviously carefully and lovingly crafted and extremely sincere whether it's your thing or not.

make up your mind, is it gonna be 'to each his own' or 'fuck you if you say anything against this obvious gem'

the tweeter in question is a music editor at the nyt

oh boiee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RXwe-v72rE

make up your mind, is it gonna be 'to each his own' or 'fuck you if you say anything against this obvious gem'

― j., Tuesday, October 15, 2019 9:37 AM (fourteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

it's "don't even think of @-ing me"

as a critical posture it's both dismissive and defensive, two things i think criticism should strive not to be but ymmv

I am always more interested in critical writing that involves subjectivity and really digs into it that way, vs this sort of objectivity lording over how others are supposed to feel. There’s of course a middle ground, a vast one occupied by many. Idk i think there’s a bit more room for being generous towards music if you start to dig into your own reactions, maybe. But I think the ego of a decent number of writers means more personal opinions being passed off as fact, much more dismissiveness and contempt. Don’t @ me w/r/t this post.

make up your mind, is it gonna be 'to each his own' or 'fuck you if you say anything against this obvious gem'

― j., Tuesday, October 15, 2019 11:37 AM (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I mean I'm really not saying it's an "obvious gem," I just don't think "emperor's new clothes" is really an apt criticism? I don't particularly like Lana Del Rey, but I don't think she is "emperor's new clothes." Like there is objectively *something* there.

right i agree with you there, i'm not sure what the exact original formulation was but my interest is not in seeing the band as new-clothesey or as hype-driven epiphenomena of the criticism industry. someone itt put it better, i think, that they seem to be an instance of a more general phenomenon where actually musically respectable bands get caught in waves of overestimation by critics-fans because of their role in the impoverished indie rock milieu but rapidly subside in esteem—yet you would expect critics to be more reflective about this when praising bands like this.

you could also expect so-called critics to maybe explain why they don't like a piece of art rather than dropping a "this sucks and everyone who likes it is dumb" stink bomb and refusing to engage with anyone.

^^^^ this

it's called editing!!!!!!!!!

I can't get over this choad referring to "'my charges." It reminds me of a National Review editor yelling at interns for using soy milk instead of REAL FUCKING CREAM in his coffee.

I mean, fwiw I've almost never enjoyed most of the NY Times' music criticism. Their house vibe seems to be very boring people trying to prove how fun they are through their appreciation of popular music.

doesn't it imply a custodial relationship, like the ones whom she has been tasked with shaping into fine critical wordsmiths and journalistic pros

I've always been annoyed by the whole "don't @ me" thing anyway, but it's one thing tagged onto the end of an obviously jokey tweet, another thing at the end of a weird (and, I'd say, misguided) blanket dismissal of any piece of art from a critic for a national outlet.

somehow i missed that this band switched drummers between masterpiece and capacity, previously i thought jason burger had developed a sudden restraint on the latter record lol. james krivchenia's quiet, understated, very in the pocket playing feels much more tied to the spirit of the band than the sick fills burger unleashes all over "real love" but i love those sick fills regardless

haha so how many other ppl thought they had honed their intuitive communication when really they just dumped their lunkhead caveman

i mean it's both tbh

anyway, i finally checked out two hands and it's unsurprisingly great. i think capacity is still my favorite of the three--they maybe hadn't turned into world-beaters yet, but the best songs on capacity still hit me the hardest (haley, mary, mythological beauty, great white shark).

everyone otm about how 'not' hits even harder in context of the record.

huh, I actually didn't realize that either, only I assumed Krivechnia had been the drummer on Masterpiece. I think that explains a big part of why I find that record more uneven as much as I like it. I always felt like the title track wasn't done the way it deserved to be due to that big rock splash it tries to make.

i don't think it's necessarily all his playing. there are many great songs on there that don't feel secure in their arrangements, some of them drumless ("velvet ring"). weird to think "paul" points the way to the rest of their discography but it does

and "randy." good ol paul and randy, pointing the way

"Paul" is still one of my very favorite songs of theirs

Handwringing over Big Thief like this is giving me flashbacks to Music Tumblr

The bass playing on "Not" is an underrated feature of "Not"