The Irish

Yeah I take you & deems as given, I’ve long given up expectation non-Irish people give a fuck. Don’t think I got a single response in the UK politics thread about de Souza case.

I'm reading but don't think I have any opinions of worth tbh

I thought I'd posted something about EDS there but it might have been one of the many things I type and then don't post.

It is totally
- depressing how ready the UK govt apparently is to shred the GFA
- depressing that NI citizens will have different sets of rights depending on which citizenship they have
- depressing and weird that you get more rights by renouncing one citizenship than having dual citizenship (ironic that you now have more rights as a self-declared Irish citizen in NI, if it wasn't actual people's lives being played with it would be almost funny after all those years of gerrymandering and weird inheritance rules and so on)
- bad that you have to pay and sign something to affirm that you are a British citizen but don't want to be any more, rather than just, you know, affirming your right never to have been one...

...but I think De Souza also says that even having to sign something to the effect of the latter would be too much. Initially this seems fair -- why should you have to? especially for something as useful and fundamental as being able to have your spouse move over, rather than just a political statement -- but I had been wondering about something asked (not answered) in one of the replies on that Twitter thread, viz: if you aren't automatically regarded as a British citizen, and the UK govt (+ the "largest political party of the largest political designation" in the non-existent-for-1001-days Stormont assembly etc etc) would surely not think NI residents were Irish by default, would everyone in NI be stateless until such point as they apply for a passport? That can't be the case (or bad side-effects ahoy, I would've thought!), but is there any other way to provide this default neutrality?

This is probably a v dumb and naive reading of things though, please do take me apart - gently (mentally in Hedonism Bot voice thanks to bg's cat)

also sorry about the lesbian couple with stateless IVF baby thing, hadn't read about that, that is some bullshit

and sorry I don't know enough to have thoughts on the referendum re birthright citizenship but people smarter than me say removing that right was also some bullshit, so I'm going to go with assuming it probably is at least until I've bothered to read up on it (thoughts and good articles welcome, especially if the articles are brief, I'm afraid)

...That was a long post and on reflection I think the point is it should never have mattered and would never really have mattered if we weren't leaving the EU and limiting immigration rights, and in so doing limiting actual life options invoked by otherwise philosophical questions of identity

the interestingness (or not) of the philosophical point should be secondary to "just don't do the thing that makes it not purely a theoretical exercise" and I regret crashing in with sophist queries

tl;dr: this was all very delicately balanced by people who thought hard about it and worked hard to bring it together, and it's fucking reckless of the Tories/us Brits (sorry) to start taking chunks out of the structure apparently without any thought at all

Is thinking we should restrict jus sanguinis to parents only my most reactionary opinion? maybe!

Fellow Brits, stop tracing your ancestry back to some distant Irish relative and applying for Irish passports. Some of you have no shame.

— jenn (@ScottishJenn_) October 16, 2019

But, if you understood that shared history folks are always going on about, you'd get how Brits grabbing an Irish passport and not contributing back, well, that kinda leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Especially when they go get into fights with people who actually live here.

— Eilís Ní Fhlannagáin 🏳️‍🌈 🏴‍☠️ 🇮🇪 (@dirtycitybird) October 16, 2019

it boils the piss a bit when you see that emma kennedy example for instance where she is making light of the paucity of connection to ireland (although i am reading it that way because a) i dislike emma kennedy and b) it's one solitary tweet and it gives me no indication of her connection or not to irishness, her family may have been quite self-consciously irish, who knows).

the emma de souza situation is shitty for her but i can't help but feel big picture about that situation (reunification will sort it).

and the uk government are always going to be bad bastards regarding immigration and citizenship

it boils the piss a bit when you see that emma kennedy example for instance where she is making light of the paucity of connection to ireland (although i am reading it that way because a) i dislike emma kennedy and b) it's one solitary tweet and it gives me no indication of her connection or not to irishness, her family may have been quite self-consciously irish, who knows).

If I didn’t know my Irish passport was coming I would be feeling furious that my long held desire to live in Italy when I retire had been scuppered.

I HATE the loss of FoM. HATE it.

— Emma Kennedy (@EmmaKennedy) January 31, 2019

@katoi I’ve already started the paperwork to become an Irish citizen. No way do I want to be outside of the EU.

— Emma Kennedy (@EmmaKennedy) June 26, 2016

Joy. Just discovered I can apply for Irish citizenship. #iameuropean

— Emma Kennedy (@EmmaKennedy) June 25, 2016

Tomorrow I go to Ireland for the very first time. In 1938 my Irish Catholic grandmother came to London and met and married a Protestant

— Emma Kennedy (@EmmaKennedy) September 27, 2013

and the uk government are always going to be bad bastards regarding immigration and citizenship

i bet you can't wait for the Emma Kennedy selfies on Ballybunion beach #whoneedsNewquay

I imagine she mentions her granny being a Catholic to let any Irish people know that she is one of them, in more ways than one. Should I know ho Emma Kennedy is? I keep getting her mixed up with Sarah Kennedy from Beadle's About or whatever that programme was.

Game For A Laugh is what you mean Tom!

http://www.ukgameshows.com/p/images/thumb/5/57/Gameforalaugh_cast.jpg/400px-Gameforalaugh_cast.jpg

that sarah kennedy

Let's have a big hand for Jeremy Beadle. I've noticed Emma Kennedy was born in Corby, so she should be able to claim Scottish citizenship when Scotland becomes independent.

for some reason I have this indelible image in my mind of Sarah Kennedy's face crudely cut and pasted inside a christmas tree bauble on the front of the godawful Eagle comic in early 1980 something

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/vFMAAOSwBt5ZFb-I/s-l1600.jpg

definitely not how i remembered it, must be something else I'm thinking of

but she's down with the mekon.

sorry not about not Irish content, but my gran is from kerry!

Also there is an Irishman there.

Henry Kelly is totes on-topic for this thread

After graduating from University College Dublin with a degree in English in 1968, he became journalist with The Irish Times, and was swiftly promoted to the post of its Belfast-based Northern Editor in 1970, at the start of civil unrest and The Troubles in Northern Ireland, a post which he held for five years. During his time in Ulster he published the book How Stormont Fell (1972), which is still highly regarded in its field

hmm 2 stars on goodreads 1 vote, nary a mention on amazon reviews even or nowhere else.. cracking work on your own wiki entry though henry.

If we are not to wait until the final act or at least an exhausted pause, it is necessary to be quickly in and quickly out. An excellent example of the problems and prospects of such an exercise can be found in Henry Kelly's How Stormont Fell (Dublin: Gill and Macmillan, 1972) that covers the period of Faulkner's Premiership, March, 1971, to March, 1972. Kelly, Northern Editor of the Irish Times, long a perceptive and knowledgeable if not completely disinterested observer of the Northern scene, has done a sound and balanced study, good journalism in the best sense of the word. And the book had an obvious beginning and end, came out in a rush while the iron was hot and a ready-made

j. bowyer bell on kelly's book

lol that’s hilarious

exellent!

in terms of actual good books by Irish people who later became tv personalities, have either if ye read It’s Only A Game?

yes, it's very good, as is a strange kind of glory, dunphy's book on matt busby (himself a member of the irish diaspora) is similarly excellent.

Duphy book sounds ace, my 3rd fave Graun writer Richard Williams reps for it as well.

It’s so good! Can also recommend Tony Cascarino’s book

The rocky road gets some praise as well.

I met Sarah Kennedy once, must've pulled a face when we were doing a cheek kiss for the photographer cos she said something like "I'm not into this either" in a pissy voice

its probably the 4th or 5th time that Ive mentioned it on the board, but yes the Tony Cascarino book is excellent

But do you recommend any books by Irish footballers? <----- the old ones are the best

I associate Cascarino with TalkSport and just assume anything to do with him is bad. ftr I don't even know if he is still a TS regular.

Idk but that book was pretty honest about him & his failings and as such is a lot more memorable than yr usual “we got a great result and the gaffer was over the moon” autos. Strong recommend alongside the Dunphy one!

Believe me as a Celtic fan I don't need to read a book to know about Tony Cascarino's failings.

lol you should still read it though

Paul McGrath's book is good

Not light reading though, needless to say

The button pushing scandal is fucking ridiculous.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/1023/1085079-dail-votes/

Something to be said for the Brits’ painfully slow method after all.

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2019/10/22/ireland-queuing-to-see-the-look-on-arlene-fosters-face/

I’m actually dying. Is this real?! The best thing they’ve done since man falling on the ice, and maybe Bachelors Walk for my favourite RTÉ thing ever.

Excuse me? @rtenews 😂😂😂🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇 pic.twitter.com/ZCXwNoja2v

— Holly Carpenter (@Holly0910) October 31, 2019

Haha I love it

Really into this Reeling in the Years account, Seamus Heaney reading a poem while Dragostea Din Tei plays over the top is peak

pic.twitter.com/HuHL8s8Dm8

— No Context Reeling In The Years (@ReelingDotJPG) November 1, 2019

jesus rte

The 2000s edition of Reeling in the Years was notably inferior to the preceding ones, especially from a music supervision standpoint

Or maybe it's just that life was

Possibly? I don’t think I’ve ever seen one of those ones.

1996 pic.twitter.com/VhEJ1QudQy

— No Context Reeling In The Years (@ReelingDotJPG) November 1, 2019

I take it back, this was of course superb and would have been so in any decade

2005 pic.twitter.com/80yei9QEzz

— No Context Reeling In The Years (@ReelingDotJPG) November 1, 2019

ah can we not with the 96 final lads pls