When They See Us, sure, but I'd still say five seasons of The Wire makes it a wider criticism.
The Shield, no way. Not only is it about a few bad cops, and has most of the other cops constantly trying to stop them, it also makes sure to show that the illegal actions of Vic Mackey might just be the only way to help with crime today. The only time an extra-legal way of policing actually seems to work on The Wire, it's when Bunny legalizes drugs in season 3.
― Frederik B, Sunday, 13 October 2019 11:29 (four years ago) link
yeah ... this got me thinking about one of the scenes that I thought was really funny, which is when Santangelo and a few other patrol cops round up a half dozen drug dealers and drop them off in the forest to walk back home ... they don't beat them, they don't shoot them, they don't arrest them ... and my enjoyment of that scene is from the fact that this wouldn't happen in real life. It's a mean trick, but it's not dehumanizing and violent. In real life, these guys would be beat, shot, or incarcerated.
― sarahell, Saturday, 12 October 2019 23:10 (yesterday) link
Given that the shows writers include ex police beat reporters and ex cops I think it’s not unlikely they plucked that incident from real life.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 13 October 2019 12:59 (four years ago) link
there is no question this actually happened. i remember this happening in 2009 https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-xpm-2011-05-02-bs-md-ci-officer-misconduct-closings-20110502-story.html
Prosecutors said the officers were working overtime near the Gilmore Homes housing complex when they picked up Shawnquin Woodland early in the evening of May 4, 2009. The officers were accused of driving him to a dangerous corner in East Baltimore, and pushing him out of the van while saying, "Thanks for the information."When the officers later returned to their patrol area, prosecutors say they picked up Michael Johnson Jr. and left him at Patapsco Valley State Park. It was raining, and a Howard County police officer who responded to the boy's call to 911 for help testified he found the teen with no shoes, socks or cellphone.
When the officers later returned to their patrol area, prosecutors say they picked up Michael Johnson Jr. and left him at Patapsco Valley State Park. It was raining, and a Howard County police officer who responded to the boy's call to 911 for help testified he found the teen with no shoes, socks or cellphone.
it is kind of funny (not in a haha way) how these and other incidents are portrayed as joeks for the most part, and the drug dealer characters just deal with it. in real life it's a lot sadder. this one happened post-wire, but it's reasonable to assume it was far from the first time this had happened. also the unit that did this (VCID) was repackaged as GTTF and many of its members are now in federal prison for robbing people.
― forensic plumber (harbl), Sunday, 13 October 2019 18:14 (four years ago) link
these and other incidents are portrayed as joeks for the most part, and the drug dealer characters just deal with it.
yeah! you're right! And the casual portrayal and "acceptance" by the drug dealer characters contribute to us seeing it as funny and laughing, whereas, what if the dealers reacted differently, or the show portrayed how it really affected them
― sarahell, Sunday, 13 October 2019 18:23 (four years ago) link
Isn't that what season four is? The dealers take it as part of the game (though not always, Bodie throws a punch in season 1. They do react), but then we see how it impacts kids
― Frederik B, Sunday, 13 October 2019 19:28 (four years ago) link
true -- we do see how it impacts kids -- but it's like, once someone is an adult? Like, think about how jail is depicted. In Season 1, you see it as threatening to Bodie (at that point, still a juvenile), and then Season 4, you see Namond scared of baby booking ... except for Omar almost getting shivved, you don't see a whole lot of trauma ... all the adult males are soldiers who only think about the day they get out. You have Avon playing playstation and getting KFC (?) delivered ... the guard that fucks with Weebay's porn and fish is about the most traumatic thing you see. Cutty seems pretty well adjusted psychologically after doing 15 years. ... Compare this to how prison is depicted in OZ.
― sarahell, Sunday, 13 October 2019 19:56 (four years ago) link
I feel like you're missing the point of both The Wire and Oz with that comparison...
― Frederik B, Sunday, 13 October 2019 20:04 (four years ago) link
D'Angelo gets killed in prison as well, btw
― Frederik B, Sunday, 13 October 2019 20:07 (four years ago) link
As does a whole bunch of people when Avon taints the dope. But that isn't really the point. The point is, as you say, that the people we follow are soldiers, who are protected inside. The whole point of Emerald City is that there is no one dominant faction, making them all fight for power all the time.
― Frederik B, Sunday, 13 October 2019 20:14 (four years ago) link
I'm sorry for being a dick about this, btw. I get way too excited when I watch The Wire. On penultimate episode, so good. MY NAME IS MY NAME!
― Frederik B, Sunday, 13 October 2019 20:34 (four years ago) link
Uh dude, not to put too fine a point on it, but would you just stop being condescending.
― sarahell, Sunday, 13 October 2019 21:27 (four years ago) link
that's a very big ask!
― calzino, Sunday, 13 October 2019 21:31 (four years ago) link
Like think about all the issues the inmates in OZ had over the course of the show (outside of the factional power struggle and violence), what of this do we see in the Wire?
― sarahell, Sunday, 13 October 2019 21:34 (four years ago) link
Every year I'm more vindicated
DeAngelo: "Man who invented them things still workin' in that basement for regular wage, thinkin' up some shit to make the fries taste better, some shit like that. Believe."Bernie: "Why the hell you think I'm socialist, yo."Wallace: "Yeah fuck Hamilton. He wasn't no president." pic.twitter.com/xyYQfmRgRv— David Simon (@AoDespair) January 21, 2021
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 21 January 2021 17:46 (three years ago) link
Simon's v hateable twitter presence vs. Chase's post-Sopranos career wasteland
― rob, Thursday, 21 January 2021 17:51 (three years ago) link
he made one well-liked movie since, which is preferable to miniseries no one will revisit in 5 years
― stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Thursday, 21 January 2021 17:54 (three years ago) link
sopranos over the wire by a country-mile of course, but david chase is also a bonehead. if he tweeted it would probably be bad. no one is david simon levels of bad mind you. but that talk he gave where he was asked to explain the ending of the sopranos and he quoted fucking Castaneda:
"Warriors don’t venture into the unknown out of greed. Greed works only in the world of ordinary affairs. To venture into that terrifying loneliness of the unknown, one must have something greater than greed: love."
give me a fucking break
― Fenners' Pen (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 21 January 2021 17:56 (three years ago) link
I was not under the impression Not Fade Away was well-liked, but I didn't see it. Not sure why you're describing Simon's career inaccurately?
― rob, Thursday, 21 January 2021 17:58 (three years ago) link
let's check in on the Plot Against America thread in 2025
― stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:05 (three years ago) link
that said if this ends up not sucking I will redact any and all snark
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8300956/
― stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:09 (three years ago) link
i still think about show me a hero, which was excellent. maybe that's because i'm a westchester county native.
― boz conspiracy by toby hus (voodoo chili), Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:10 (three years ago) link
unfair to begin any comparison of simon vs chase oeuvres in 1999 therefore chopping off homicide life in the streets a bunch of which is as good as the best of the wire
― flopson, Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:12 (three years ago) link
I'm definitely more harsh on Simon than I would be if he wasn't such an asshole, I watched and liked SMAH and Treme at the time. but I feel like a) Chase deserves more credit for The Sopranos than Simon does for The Wire and b) Sopranos is at least 5x better than The Wire
― stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:15 (three years ago) link
I don't really get your point about threads standing the test of time or whatever (the Not Fade Away thread doesn't exactly confirm your "well-liked" thesis), and Treme and The Deuce aren't miniseries.
A Dry Run sounds potentially good -- like everything he does it probably depends on who he collaborates with.
Chase's next projects: a prequel movie to the Sopranos & a series about early Hollywood. I mean dude's 75, so I'm not going to clown him for that, but I don't think he wins any kind of career comparison contest here, or maybe you're a big Northern Exposure fan?
― rob, Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:16 (three years ago) link
fwiw both of these shows are by definition overrated and have significant flaws
― rob, Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:19 (three years ago) link
I've been revisiting Sopranos lately with ppl who haven't seen it lately and would dispute "significant flaws" tbh
― stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:20 (three years ago) link
too many latelys but you get it
The biggest flaw that struck me on watching the entire series last year was its frequent male gaziness. I assume fans will dismiss that as the coming from the characters, but they're not operating the camera when Adrianna and Meadow are on screen. The handling of race is also quite bad at times, but for better or worse isn't as much of a feature. Also, Season 4 is a drag :)
― rob, Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:24 (three years ago) link
Rot in this revive
Wire is clear of sopranos
― Qanondorf (darraghmac), Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:25 (three years ago) link
TIL:
Simon's nephew, Jason Simon, is a guitarist and vocalist for the psychedelic rock band Dead Meadow.
― stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:25 (three years ago) link
The biggest flaw that struck me on watching the entire series last year was its frequent male gaziness
it's true, you spend much of the series gazing at males
― stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:26 (three years ago) link
this is a fun convo
― rob, Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:27 (three years ago) link
I can't think of a single example of what you're talking about tbh. The most obvious "example" I can think of are the feds leering at Ade while monitoring her during the s3 opener, but that's completely in character for bored cops.
― stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:28 (three years ago) link
would it be more annoying or more interesting to rerun this poll
― stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:30 (three years ago) link
def annoying
― rob, Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:31 (three years ago) link
annoying when the wire won again
― Fenners' Pen (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:31 (three years ago) link
call me foolish but I honestly think sopranos would win
― stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:32 (three years ago) link
if we’re gonna judge filmmakers/showrunners based on whether they’re good on twitrer, that would be pretty unkind to basically everyone but the safdie bros
― boz conspiracy by toby hus (voodoo chili), Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:40 (three years ago) link
AOC would only need to release a 5 minute short to be the best filmmaker then
― Looking for Cape Penis house (Neanderthal), Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:41 (three years ago) link
xavier dolan should really be doing more with social media
― stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:48 (three years ago) link
― boz conspiracy by toby hus (voodoo chili), Thursday, January 21, 2021 10:10 AM (thirty minutes ago)
I think about it a lot because I have to deal with city governments and affordable housing stuff for work ... I'm tempted to rewatch, but the ending will make me cry even more now.
Seriously though, the male gaziness of Sopranos is totally ... a lot of it takes place in a fucking strip club ffs but the strippers are just "kinda there". Yes, parts of the Wire also take place in strip club but the women in that context are presented more as actual people and not like literal set dressing. Neither win prizes for feminism though.
― sarahell, Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:49 (three years ago) link
that's fair. otoh Sopranos has a much greater number of well-realized female characters than The Wire does
― stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:58 (three years ago) link
*disputed
― Qanondorf (darraghmac), Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:58 (three years ago) link
(going by memory, anyway)
And also the fact Sopranos is pretty much affluent middle-aged straight white male problems -- like, I watched it, and I enjoyed parts of it, and apparently the actor that plays the nephew who has all the problems -- I forget the character name, but basically the Ziggy Sobotka / Jimmy Darmody character is actually a cool dude who is into No Wave. But still, I don't really have much empathy for or interest in these people, apart from the wife, who was pretty awesome tbh. Idk, it wasn't bad. It was as good as a good season of Game of Thrones, which I did watch to the bitter end. The Wire, however, seriously stands the test of time in many ways.
― sarahell, Thursday, 21 January 2021 18:59 (three years ago) link
xpost MeadowAdrianaCarmelaJaniceRosalieAnnalisa ZuccaDr Melfi
― Looking for Cape Penis house (Neanderthal), Thursday, 21 January 2021 19:00 (three years ago) link
Maybe it's just that the Wire is more relevant to me? I am sure there are ilxors who are affluent middle-aged straight white males who find the Sopranos personally relevant in ways I do not.
― sarahell, Thursday, 21 January 2021 19:01 (three years ago) link
like, I watched it, and I enjoyed parts of it, and apparently the actor that plays the nephew who has all the problems -- I forget the character name, but basically the Ziggy Sobotka / Jimmy Darmody character is actually a cool dude who is into No Wave
different folks different priorities I guess
― stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Thursday, 21 January 2021 19:02 (three years ago) link
I'm a middle-aged straight white guy and I'd still vote for The Wire. I thought the exploration of oppressive capitalist systems was more interesting than mob boss goes to therapy.
― DJI, Thursday, 21 January 2021 19:04 (three years ago) link
god im going to be getting tired fingers with all these fps
― Fenners' Pen (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 21 January 2021 19:04 (three years ago) link