Nick Drake: why???

I think in the end it all boils down to if you like or don't like an artist. The sameness argument concerning Nick Drake is completely relative and subjective.

I have to disagree. First, it's possible to like something and hold it in no great esteem (I gather several people have this relationship to the Strokes). One can also be impressed--I dare say bowled over-- by music one doesn't care to hear that often, if ever (my feelings toward Loveless, many others' toward "noise"-based music). The conflation of admiration and taste for something is common, but fallacious as a principle.

Second, as I said, once the parameters have been established, repetition is one of the few features that can be objectively agreed on. I'm confused by people's disagreement here: if a musical piece consists of a rhythmically-sounded tuning fork, is its uniformity "subjective"? My contention about Drake will be flat-out wrong if, in the songs and passages I find similar, Drake's playing varies in a good number of ways that I've failed to notice.

Drake's three studio albums are totally different. Pink Moon is bleak as bleak can be, Five Leaves Left is wistfully beautiful, Bryter Later a little overproduced and almost poppy. If you don't hear any differences in the songs, amal25 it just means that you didn't get into them, you were put off before. I think to hear the nuances in Drake's music you have to like it.

See above. This need never be true in music or any other art form. It's not encouraging that those who like, and have presumably lent attention to Drake's work, haven't pointed out the differences between the songs I compared earlier (aside from the production).

The limitations of the voice can not be used as an argument I think. Why should someone with a more versatile voice like Jeff Buckley be a more accomplished artist? All right Buckley would probably have been a better opera singer with all his mannerisms but that is totally irrelevant. Do you also use Ian Curtis and Lou Reed's limited voices as arguments against JD and VU?

I don't think Reed's vocal styles--or Curtis', from the little I know- -are so limited, at least compared to those of Drake. And I'm basing the claim of versatility on what I've heard these artists do, not on what they seem capable of.

I don't recall saying this, but my search for subtle differences within Drake's songs has turned up very little. Yes, it may be that I need to look harder.

but nuance is exactly what I find in his songs: "Parasite", "Northern Sky", "Chime Of A City Clock" may be very similar musically and even thematically but perhaps the value in them is in contemplating the small differences that there are (and the differences in mood in these songs strike me as not so small - now it may be that you dismiss 'mood' as an appropriate subject for critical consideration, but I don't agree).

The lyrical mood does differ (I assume you weren't implying differences in production). McDonald's article, which I read on one poster's recommendation, has made me respect Drake more as a lyricist, but hasn't dispelled the feeling that he wanted for musical ideas.

This misses the point again, amal25. What is being called into question is your continued insistence that repetition (or "uniform tone, uniform rhythm and vocal dynamics" for that matter) is "objectively" a fault.

My contention about Drake will be flat-out wrong if, in the songs and passages I find similar, Drake's playing varies in a good number of ways that I've failed to notice.

No. Your contention was flat-out wrong the second someone said they liked repetition.

(In the last three days, have concluded N Drake is the most terrific genius of all time ever, just to spite objectivity)

At no point have I "insisted" that it should be seen as a fault. I have presented this standard as my own and supposed that it will be shared to some degree by some of the people reading. And so it seems to be; many responses have offered evidence contrary to my claims of sameness or simply dismissed them, but two at most have attacked the values inherent in them. Alex was doing the former (as was Tom, despite his initial wavering), and so I fail to see how my response misses the point.

No. Your contention was flat-out wrong the second someone said they liked repetition.

Subjective approval doesn't counter subjective opposition. You have to ignore or shine on a lot of what I've written, including responses to your posts, to say that I have been forcing my standards on people who don't share them. Only the "sameness is damning" comment, which should have been introduced by "for me" (but which was appropriate in context), suggests this.

fwiw I love all of Five Leaves Left but onyl sporadic tracks from his other two LPs and the TONR set.

So forget this cruel world
Where I belong
I'll just sit and wait
And sing my song.
And if one day you should see me in the crowd
Lend a hand and lift me
To your place in the cloud.

beautiful song.

Drake is lovely and his production is so suprisingly clear, a friend of mine was quite suprised when I told him it was 60s music I was playing. I wish I had more of his stuff. Or hell, any.

quite a bit of hatred on this thread.

I like him. I liked him more about 5 years ago when I knew less about music.

Pink Moon is one of those albums that I can't stop listening to once I've started. Whenever I play a track it's like "if you give a mouse a cookie..."

I agree, Pink Moon is mind blowing.

I can't play Which Will without playing Horn, and I can't play Horn without playing Things Behind The Sun, and I can't play Things Behind The Sun without playing Know...

I've always had a lot of love for Things Behind The Sun.

Have you heard Sebadoh's cover of Pink Moon? It blows me away in a similar way that Dinosaur Jr doing "Just Like Heaven" does, its like "haha omg", they totally MURDER the "pink, pink, pink, pink" bit with screaming, somehow it kind of works.

Anyway, his lyrics are just awesome, I have to say that much. "Northern Sky" is beautiful.

Few singers can get away with doing that excessively tender and exposed thing all the time, but he's one of them. It's unfortunate that he's inspired so many others to attempt the same thing.

lol

I'd never really heard of him until a month or so ago, when I went to hear Joe Boyd read. Just today, I listened to Bryter Layter. Tomorrow, Pink Moon.

i'm jealous! have fun

I lurve Pink Moon.

sebadoh > nick drake

sebadoh is shit. anyway this thread is for nick drake lo-- oh right.

Few singers can get away with doing that excessively tender and exposed thing all the time, but he's one of them.

And so is Mark Kozelek.

A 'new' album up soon, right?

And I thought the Pistols were champions in the "horse, dead, flogging of" category.

They aint even in the southern prem league!

Hendrix, Marley, etc.

although..
http://i12.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/9d/99/9c57_1.JPG

Tupac, dudes (xp)

I stand by what I said upthread, in that I love FFL pretty much whole, but only find other songs beyond that really compelling. I like Drake, and loved him, possibly, for a while when I was about 17.

Consistency or un-variation I don't see as a problem at all; in fact an artist exploring their aesthetic over a number of years and records is often very compelling.

Possibly the crux of Drake for me, and the moment which proves he's not just an emotional one-trick pony, is the miraculous, soaring, joyous (to me, at any rate) acoustic guitar solo which sears through the centre of "Black Eyed Dog"; possibly it's Drake's saddest tune, his most defeated - he certainly sounds to me as if he's crying as he sings it - and then this solo tears the song in two, elevates the mood incredibly, exposes blue skies where there was really only black before.

Damn Nick you have to stop making me scramble to find songs you keep describing like this.

IT'S MY JOB, INNIT. Sort of.

In my view, the great thing about Nick Drake is that he wrote these beautiful melodic songs, with very pastoral arrangements, no rough edges and a musical style that would have been considered "twee" hadn't it been for the lyrics and his tragic life history. And yet, this "twee" music has received a lot of critical acclaim. Which is great, but other "twee" artists should have just as much love too :)

His lyrics are often pretty twee

"Fwuit Twee" for instance (sorry)

Unlike his sister in There's A Girl In My Soup...