are you supposed to revere something in an irreverent tone?
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 17:54 (nineteen years ago) link
i do have a distaste for hyperbole. it's nice to read something like o. nate's post, then. since this board is so full of hyperbole.
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 17:56 (nineteen years ago) link
hmmm...this is interesting, because webb has a problem with writing really abstract love lyrics with overly fussy metaphors. in fact i would even say that some of his lyrics verge on the sort of mushy pop-psychological stuff that really turns me off. (as in the "reunion" record which i can't dismiss so easily.)
i think it's this song's specificity, its occasional rendering of concrete detail, that lifts it above a lot of other webb compositions.
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 18:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 18:01 (nineteen years ago) link
Yes.
― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 18:20 (nineteen years ago) link
OK, fine, but something typed in haste on a message board should necessarily be held to the same level of literary standards as a song, especially if it's claimed to be the greatest of all time.
Maybe the line means what people are saying it means: I x more than y, and I y a lot. But if so, this doesn't strike me as a particularly clever or poetic construction - it's almost childish, really. For a more grown-up, complex, and sexy take on the whole "need vs. want" thing, see Smokey Robinson's "You Really Got a Hold On Me".
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 18:44 (nineteen years ago) link
That was a favorite theme of Motown and vintage R&B. See also Marvin Gaye's "Ain't that Peculiar" ("you do me wrong but still I'm crazy bout you"), Martha and the Vandellas' "Nowhere to Run" ("I know you're no good for me, but you've become a part of me").
― The Mad Puffin (The Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 18:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― mottdeterre (mottdeterre), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 18:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 19:05 (nineteen years ago) link
As far as "need vs. want" - "You Really Got a Hold On Me" is a great song, especially in the Beatles version, but its razor's edge approach/avoid take on love is actually easier to pull off successfully than the infinite corridor of want that is evoked in "Wichita Lineman."
― Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 19:11 (nineteen years ago) link
― mottdeterre (mottdeterre), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 19:17 (nineteen years ago) link
xpost
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 19:19 (nineteen years ago) link
That is, I'm lonely and cold and I'm holding on alone here, doing all the work, but I'm still at it--because I need and want you so much, I have no choice but to keep working at the relationship.
― The Mad Puffin (The Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 19:22 (nineteen years ago) link
i like this about the song.
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 19:29 (nineteen years ago) link
That said, I agree with Kenny L that your arguments are good and your perspective is perfectly fine. I enjoy not-agreeing just as much as agreeing, provided that no one is an asshole about it.
― Haibun (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 19:55 (nineteen years ago) link
I'm old enough to remember when the song was first out, I was a Glen Campbell fan as a tyke. I never understood what it was about at all for years, but I got it, he was lonely, driving the main road and searching in the sun for another overload, which is such a brilliant line.
Webb's songs are strange--I remember also being puzzled by this Fifth Dimension tune of his, "Carpet Man," I guess the guy was getting walked on or was walking on a woman, so to speak? It's really weird and if I hear it right there's a line "and then the coroner will have a dance on you."
― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 20:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― Haibun (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 20:06 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Mad Puffin (The Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 20:06 (nineteen years ago) link
― Haibun (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 20:08 (nineteen years ago) link
― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 20:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 20:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 20:27 (nineteen years ago) link
It absolutely is. Webb was also going through a hideous and prolonged breakup around that time, which almost certainly contributed to the tone of the song, if not the metaphor itself.
― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 20:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― Haibun (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 20:59 (nineteen years ago) link
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1668844
turns out, he's quite dissatisfied with that "need you more than want you" chorus for a pretty funny reason (they start discussing it around the 7:00 minute mark if you want to skip ahead)
― Stormy Davis (diamond), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 21:15 (nineteen years ago) link
I guess this goes back to the essential ambiguity of the lyrics that I wrote about upthread. We don't really know what his relationship is to the person he's singing to. So you can read it this way if you want to - but for me to read it that way, I think I'd feel like I was basically rewriting the song in my own mind to conform to what I think the most engaging scenario would be. I like to be given a bit more to go on, I think.
Anyway, a related thought that occurred to me is that maybe this is one of those songs that is going to become a victim of the march of progress. I mean as we all live in an increasingly wireless and omni-connected cyber-verse - the thought of some guy being out there tending to these wires and not being able to connect himself may become an increasingly archaic metaphor. Future generations may not be able to understand why he doesn't just pick up his cell-phone and call her.
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 21:26 (nineteen years ago) link
inasmuch as current generations can understand why paul revere had to ride a horse, i'm pretty sure future generations will be able to figure out what a telephone wire was.
― fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 21:38 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ken L (Ken L), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 21:38 (nineteen years ago) link
― fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 21:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 21:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 21:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 21:51 (nineteen years ago) link
Is my irony detector broken?
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 21:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 21:56 (nineteen years ago) link
i'm having a bad typing day.
― fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 21:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 21:59 (nineteen years ago) link
I'm pretty sure this guy is working on telephone lines if you read the lyrics.
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 21:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 22:01 (nineteen years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 22:01 (nineteen years ago) link
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 22:03 (nineteen years ago) link
She's left him, and he can't move on.
(Though I must confess that the first time I heard the song I probably thought it meant lineman as in football player, which would be quite different.)
― The Mad Puffin (The Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 22:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 22:04 (nineteen years ago) link
― jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 22:05 (nineteen years ago) link
And I need you more than want you and I want you for all timeAnd the Wichita lineman is still on the line
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 22:09 (nineteen years ago) link
Technically this is not correct - snow is not a problem for telephone (or power) lines - it's freezing rain that causes them to break.
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 22:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 22:14 (nineteen years ago) link
- Dave Nicosia, Warning Coordination Meteorologist, National Weather Service Binghamton
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 22:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 19 January 2005 22:16 (nineteen years ago) link