The Lysergic Acid Diethylamidiotic Joe Biden & Sarah Palin VP Presidential Debate thread in the 2 zero zero 8 (2008 party over oops)

biden's choke-up might have had an element of histrionics, but even so, he effectively worked himself up into the actual emotion, and in the aftermath, he channeled this emotion very effectively i thought, right back on message, at the issues (the kitchen table - they're looking for help - they don't want more of the same).

It wasn't a direct response!

73% of Biden and Palin's answers weren't direct responses, big deal

If Palin had choked up about something, people would be on to her like a ton of bricks.

Thing is, I saw her working really, really hard last night. There were a couple of moments, including in her (non)response to Biden's little emotional moment where I could almost see her remembering her coaching about her emotional response and then uttering some of the biggest nonsense I've ever heard.

Did Cheney consider running for the Republican nomination at all?

PALIN: me and todd had lotsa trouble sitting round the kitchen table at night, thinking 'bout sending kids to iraq, got a special needs kid right here in my papoose...

BIDEN: you've got a special needs kid? well mine's DEAD!

lololololol

when it comes to a guy remembering what it was like to suddenly lose half his family and wonder if he was doing the right thing by staying in senate despite his surviving sons being critically injured, i wouldn't presume to know what would be "too much emotion."

it's fine if you don't think it was a great or touching moment or if you're uncertain of its intent or genuineness. but i can't imagine why the fuck you'd want to be the guy goin' "bullshit."

x-post Palin coulda gotten away with choking up about her decision to keep her baby, would have been slammed for crying about how hard bein' a veep candidate is.

i'm thinkin "genuineness" may not be a word.

i dont get why ppl keep repeating the right wing "Who questioned his ability to be a parent???" thing.

if a diehard lefty like myself came away with the same perception independently, maybe there's something to it.

it's a great moment, very effective, very cinematic. but it also reads scripted (notice how he sticks the landing by ending up on message), shoehorned into the context, like a direct response to a challenge that was never issued.

But the notion that somehow, because I’m a man, I don’t know what it’s like to raise two kids alone, I don’t know what it’s like to have a child you’re not sure is going to — is going to make it — I understand.

I understand, as well as, with all due respect, the governor or anybody else, what it’s like for those people sitting around that kitchen table. And guess what? They’re looking for help. They’re looking for help. They’re not looking for more of the same.

if you don't think Biden was authentic, I can't help you (or, as Biden would say, God love you)

Palin got flustered because she knew it had a political impact and she knew she couldn't attack him for it (or, for lols, she wanted to compare him to Hillary's teary moment, and then remembered she's supposed to looove Hillary)

palin could never have choked up because she wasn't competent enough to go off script and ad lib like biden did

he came across as if he knew this stuff, she came across as if she'd been taught it (v. recently too)

^^^

I don't doubt Biden worked himself up into the actual emotion, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a tactical move. McCain had a seriously awful time in Vietnam, but should we give him a free pass every time he mentions it?

cozwn otm

on the whole though, Palin didn't do well enough to change anything significantly thus = victory for Obama

all i kept thinking when she said "ahmadinejad" like six times in two minutes was, "damn i would love to have been in that prep room when they were teaching her how to say that"

McCain had a seriously awful time in Vietnam, but should we give him a free pass every time he mentions it?

uh wtf half his campaign is based on getting a "free pass" for it

but i can't imagine why the fuck you'd want to be the guy goin' "bullshit."

maybe because politicians are professional bullshit artists, and allowing yourself to be emotionally manipulated by them is not a reflex one should groom?

McCain had a seriously awful time in Vietnam, but should we give him a free pass every time he mentions it?

If Biden brings up his kid & wife half as much as McCain brought up (and continues to bring up) Vietnam, then he shouldn't (and wouldn't) get a free pass.

(xpost)

maybe because politicians are professional bullshit artists, and allowing yourself to be emotionally manipulated by them is not a reflex one should groom?

have any of us lost a child and our wife in an accident? do we know what that experience is like? can we think for a moment that maybe sometimes for people who have experienced these sorts of things, weird things and phrases may trigger memories and flashbacks and that we get choked up at unexpected times? or do we expected our politicians to be robots and just answer the damn question? it's manipulative, sure, but is really any worse than palin trotting out her goddamn kids and todd every chance she gets?

^^^^^

the big storyline coming out of the debate was going to be "palin shows her stuff" just because she seemed like halfway not retarded and they were gonna get some big bounce out of this like her convention speech....so is that happening?

― M@tt He1ges0n, Friday, October 3, 2008 10:12 AM (14 minutes ago)

seems unlikely to me. cable chatterers get super involved in the expectations game, which is fine i guess, but they seem to believe this is how really "middle america" grades debate performances, rather than treating the exercize as a self-check on whether the media had a correct view of the candidate to begin with. and what do you know, reaction polls are giving it to biden.

as Biden would say, God love you)

he really is Irish descent then!

Same injured kid is shipping out to Green Zone today, maybe?

palin was clearly making an effort to tone down her usual YA WANT SOME JUICE HON delivery - she often began a statement in that mode then realized how she was sounding abt 10 seconds in and dialed it back

still she couldnt really help it SAY IT AINT SO JOE DOGONIT!

There's no equivalence going on here, Que and David. Palin's response was about as inhuman and inept as I've ever seen.

i dont get why ppl keep repeating the right wing "Who questioned his ability to be a parent???" thing.

stfu

McCain had a seriously awful time in Vietnam, but should we give him a free pass every time he mentions it?

I'm sorry, has Biden been asking for a lot of "free passes" on this? How can you compare how Biden referred to his loss to how McCain has milked his POW past? And doesn't experience as a single parent (a widower, at that) relate to understanding single parents a lot more than being a POW relate to knowing how to win a war?

And as for why he may have been a bit high strung on a valid experience to bring up when discussing how family experience affects your political stances, let's not forget that Palin mentioned that his current wife's reward "is in heaven, right?"

really any worse than palin trotting out her goddamn kids and todd every chance she gets?

But Bristol, Track, and future son Levi weren't there!

I felt is was a bit rich that Palin talked about the worries of affording tuition when in the real world she's got one grown kid in the army and another whom college is the least of her problems now.

trotting out her kids= i meant talking about being a mom, hockey mom, a lipstick mom, mom mom mom, etc

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/10/03/leaked_from_palins_debate_prep.html

says it all. i don't know how many people picked up on how concerned she was to fill up the time window - to not reveal that she had a limited, canned spiel that she couldn't much talk beyond - but i think there was enough flailing in the answers and fleeting glimpses of panic that might have given it away to non-politics dorks.

every time she (or anybody) mentions "Todd" alls i can think of is

http://www.mtv.com/onair/beavisandbutthead/images/flipbooks/meet_cast/todd/todd5.jpg

all i kept thinking when she said "ahmadinejad" like six times in two minutes was, "damn i would love to have been in that prep room when they were teaching her how to say that"

Ha ha! Exactly! All I could think was, 'Settle down, Sarah, I heard you successfully pronounce his name the first time, no need to show off, now.'

the palins are millionaires too fwiw fyi etc

NRO hitting biden hard:

Biden's Grammar [John J. Miller]

Jason made a grammatical point. As an editor at NR, he has probably corrected my improper us of who/whom more times than I know. But I'd like to nitpick at Joe Biden anyway, because this one is a pet peeve of mine. Biden said this:

The issue is, how different is John McCain's policy going to be than George Bush's? I haven't heard anything yet. I haven't heard how his policy is going to be different on Iran than George Bush's. I haven't heard how his policy is going to be different with Israel than George Bush's. I haven't heard how his policy in Afghanistan is going to be different than George Bush's. I haven't heard how his policy in Pakistan is going to be different than George Bush's.

It's not different than, it's different from.

corrected my improper us

ZING

what's their stance on pronouncing "nuclear"?

isn't it "different to"?

WAAAAAAAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2007/07/different-fromthanto.html

isn't it "different to"?

NO! USA! USA! USA!

gabbneb you really don't have to spin that one for us

If you said to, then you're probably British, although you might be from a Commonwealth country.

OTM.

what's their stance on pronouncing "nuclear"?

oh snaps

what's their stance on Palin referring to Obama as "Barack"?

I seriously see red whenever any elected official involved in energy policy or military technology says nukular.

'Reward is in heaven' isn't a necessarily mean thing for a devout person to say but it certainly came across as crass from Palin, somehow.

yeah I didn't get that - it sounded like Palin was making a joke about how Biden's wife doesn't get paid jackshit...?

Attention Nabisco:

Meghan O'Rourke sez Sarah Palin is a character in a George Saunders story

like "lolz yr wife is a shmuck for having a thankless public sector job haw haw"

x-post

the "her reward is in heaven" line was both completely cringeworthy to my ears and palin's most human, genuine moment of the debate

it sounded like a threat to me