OPO: Cream

I almost paraphrased this last on the Obit Thread.

Elvin otm. Baker was probably the best drummer Hawkwind ever had, kind of a low bar though.

Elvin Jones otm

Baker was the worst sounding of the 60s name drummers

I love that Elvin quote.

Mick Jagger
@MickJagger
·
3h
Sad news hearing that Ginger Baker has died, I remember playing with him very early on in Alexis Korner’s Blues Incorporated. He was a fiery but extremely talented and innovative drummer.
My fave thing with his input is one of the first and best CDs I bought, No Material, with him listed as leader,ears say for commercial purposes: live with Sonny Sharrock, Peter Brotzmann, Nicky Skopelitis, Jan Kazda (last minute sub for Laswell,hence the title). Unperson reminded me there's at least/most one other gig recorded, but this line-up last long.

didn't last long.

Yeah, those two gigs were all there ever was, I think. There's a great quote from Charlie Watts in the documentary - he says basically that every time you heard a new band from Ginger it was amazing, and you'd want it to go on forever, but then it would blow up after a week.

Just listened to Disraeli Gears a few nights ago. Classic album.

Track down "Gonks go Beat", a terrible movie. The producers clearly had no idea what they were doing, and accidentally added some really good bits with Graham Bond and Ginger Baker to the fore, in a movie that was otherwise aiming for the Cliff Richard teenager market (non existant at that point)

is it just sunday, or does ILM consider Ginger a rockist (or a jazzisit?) so beneath contempt that his death is not worth noting?

Wasn’t it already noted? And continuing to be noted?

Cream are not really what you'd call big favourites on ILM.

I hate his playing on the Blind Faith album too.

It's come to something when Jack Bruce is the nice guy in your band

Ginger is accorded the same respect as various other prickly musical characters we have known-Lou Reed, Alex Chilton, to name two- although perhaps his musical output is less highly regarded across the board.

I've been cheerleading for Cream on here for years. In all honesty, though, I think my longstanding Cream fandom--going back 40 years to high school--is largely tied in with Clapton and Bruce. I don't know--I'm probably taking Baker's drumming for granted, and maybe he had a hand in writing some of my favourite songs.

According to the doc, he’s responsible for the 5/4 part of White Room

I don't think we should him or other members of Blind Faith for the way the album turned out: apparently the label rush-released it, and maybe fiddled with it, before the musos considered it finished. Which probably added to my impression of prematurely old men doing music therapy in a rundown, but still clinical halfway house or prison: proto-metal is the term we have now that I think of it in terms of, as a fan of early Sabs for instance,

Ginger Baker does have the most varied discography of any of the classic UK drummers of that era. He did eventually make quite a few jazz records. The music he did with Bill Frisell and Charlie Haden is cool. There are some nice videos of that group on YT. I really like that Masters of Reality cd he did, but how that ended up was pretty sad (kinda Spinal Tap moment for Baker).

The Blind Faith album is probably best approached as an EP--although sometimes the mood does strike for "Do What You Like".

Cream sucks, this guy was an asshole, the album w fela is good. The end.

It's come to something when Jack Bruce is the nice guy in your band

― living in the heart of the beat (Matt #2)

Hey now, Eric Clapton did eventually apologize for being a fascist. That seems like a pretty low bar but look at how few people who embrace fascism ever manage to clear it!

Have we done a TS on Cream vs. the Police?

"Toad" is indefensible and is, I'd argue, the proximate cause of any number of interminable '70s rock drum solos.

over and over, he said "I can throw down with Tony Williams, Elvin Jones et al, no other rock guys can swing, but I can!" Yet, while he used patterns that drummers would use to swing, he never really did, that I heard. I liked listening to him for his overpowering tastelessness…

The live Cream albums are fun to listen to for the absolute, heedless lack of sensitivity and interest each guy has in the other two. Jack Bruce famously was turned up so loud that when the other guys stopped playing, he kept going; maybe he couldn't hear anyone else, or maybe he didn't care…those albums also have examples where he is way way way the fuck out of tune for long streches… friend of mine said today, "now Ginger and Jack can not listen to each other in suckass blues jam heaven."

― veronica moser, Sunday, October 6, 2019 12:42 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

otm and lol @ yr friend

So sad to note the passing of Ginger Baker. With Jack Bruce & Eric, he was a game-changer in Cream in the 60s and a fabulous drummer. Here's a photo I took of the three of them together when they visited Eric & me in the 70s. pic.twitter.com/jjT65KfclF

— Pattie Boyd (@thepattieboyd) October 7, 2019

Happy days are here again.

Hey now, Eric Clapton did eventually apologize for being a fascist.

he did? last I heard he said he regretted some of his comments but his views were the same, Enoch Powell was right

Happy days are here again.

Clapton’s bizarre outburst, which helped spur the Rock Against Racism movement, saw him labeled a racist for many years, and he has subsequently apologized many times, blaming his addiction to drink and drugs for the outburst.

The musician reveals in the film that he would drink a bottle of cognac by midday, before snorting cocaine from a knife at lunch.

The singer said last night that watching the unedited footage, which is included in Lili Zanuck’s new film out next month, left him newly “disgusted” with himself for his “chauvinistic” and “fascistic” comments on stage.

According to the Daily Mail he added: “I sabotaged everything I got involved with.”

He said: “I was so ashamed of who I was, a kind of semi-racist, which didn’t make sense. Half of my friends were black, I dated a black woman, and I championed black music.”

The musician reveals in the film that he would drink a bottle of cognac by midday, before snorting cocaine from a knife at lunch.

Never did Michael Gove's career any harm tbf.

his views were the same, Enoch Powell was right

Is there a quote for this?

Wikipedia summarises his political opinions. It's a while ago now but in 2007 he said he's not a racist but Enoch Powell's comments were still "relevant"

i think EC is creeping closer to actual public contrition and full disavowal, maybe the 50th anniversary is the date to watch for

well, he's not apologizing to me, so i can't judge whether it was sincere or not!

W/r/t Ginger, as lots of people have said a great drummer, but I don't think of him as a really great player, even a lot of those Bill Laswell late 80s/early 90s records, "Middle Passage" in particular is great, were all assembled as overdubs, Ginger didn't really play with many (or maybe any) of the other musicians in the studio. Jah Wobble even tweeted abt it 'I didn't meet him at the time, Bill thought it would be "unwise"', that mentality of Cream,"I'm just going to play and if it works with what these other people happen to be doing great, if not, that is also great, I don't care".

Beware of Mr Baker makes a great case for him as a drummer but a couple of times, specifically when he & Clapton are dismissing Moon (ok, maybe) and Bonham as not being in Baker's league (and that Bonham didn't swing) are really "ok keep telling yourself that" moments.

I will say that maybe other than Robert Plant, there aren't too many English rock dudes from his era that seemed to have a really love & curiosity about music , to the point of traveling, hunting down the sources and really immersing himself in it when he could have made more money playing hard rock or the "hits" as it were

rip ginger baker, shine on you crazy hendecagon

https://img.discogs.com/jadNL9CnZ3OPE-U556dojo79sfQ=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-1956018-1531326782-4540.jpeg.jpgp

just adding that when Enoch Powell was on DID he chose 4 Wagner pieces and his luxury item was: Smoking device to smoke fish.

I used to hate Eric Clapton, genuinely hate him, for being a racist piece of shit. I don't know if his apology was sincere or just an excuse but I don't hate him anymore. I look at him as a massively overhyped guitarist who did a bunch of songs I don't much enjoy, but I don't hate him. Now I hate Morrissey for being a racist piece of shit.

I also believe that what middle-aged white ladies think on the burning question of "Is Eric Clapton still racist" probably shouldn't carry a whole lot of moral weight.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2008/apr/20/popandrock.race

only last December [2007] on The South Bank Show he reiterated his support for the man and four years ago [2004] he told Uncut magazine that Powell had been 'outrageously brave'.

Not buying Clapton's "apologies"; to my knowledge, he never specifically addressed his '04 and '07 comments.

Beware of Mr Baker makes a great case for him as a drummer but a couple of times, specifically when he & Clapton are dismissing Moon (ok, maybe) and Bonham as not being in Baker's league (and that Bonham didn't swing) are really "ok keep telling yourself that" moments.

I think it's jealousy. Baker was the Man on the UK scene, and then here comes this 19-year-old speed freak, with no obvious formal training, and little respect for traditional techniques, trashing his drums every night, and he suddenly starts showing up on "best drummer" polls above Baker. Then a couple years later, a band modeled in part on Cream becomes the hugest thing in the world, and their drummer is celebrated for what Baker used to be celebrated for.

... and people stop thinking Cream were that big a deal.

I will say that maybe other than Robert Plant, there aren't too many English rock dudes from his era that seemed to have a really love & curiosity about music , to the point of traveling, hunting down the sources and really immersing himself in it when he could have made more money playing hard rock or the "hits" as it were

You could argue there was one in the same band. Jack Bruce. Not English though, of course.

Imagining Jack n' Ginger hunting down rare forms of music together now, pith helmets and all

One sends the other ahead then shoots him in the back.

W/r/t Ginger, as lots of people have said a great drummer, but I don't think of him as a really great player, even a lot of those Bill Laswell late 80s/early 90s records, "Middle Passage" in particular is great, were all assembled as overdubs, Ginger didn't really play with many (or maybe any) of the other musicians in the studio. Jah Wobble even tweeted abt it 'I didn't meet him at the time, Bill thought it would be "unwise"', that mentality of Cream,"I'm just going to play and if it works with what these other people happen to be doing great, if not, that is also great, I don't care".

Beware of Mr Baker makes a great case for him as a drummer but a couple of times, specifically when he & Clapton are dismissing Moon (ok, maybe) and Bonham as not being in Baker's league (and that Bonham didn't swing) are really "ok keep telling yourself that" moments.

I will say that maybe other than Robert Plant, there aren't too many English rock dudes from his era that seemed to have a really love & curiosity about music , to the point of traveling, hunting down the sources and really immersing himself in it when he could have made more money playing hard rock or the "hits" as it were

Wanted to say did you forget The Golden Palominos then I thought better of it.

Part of me wonders whether Laswell recorded his entire output with Baker—PIL, Horses and Trees, Middle Passage, Skopelitis’s Next to Nothing in a single session. On most of those records anyway

I was thinking the same thing, Baker def seemed like the sort of person who you could set up in a studio and let the tape roll and as long as the checks cleared he would be totally fine with whatever the finished product was

I recently interviewed singer Bernard Fowler, who was part of Laswell's company of singers and players in the mid '80s; he's on the PIL album, on the Herbie Hancock albums, on Yoko Ono's Starpeace, on Mick Jagger's She's The Boss, etc., etc., and he said Laswell's manager would basically call him up and say, "Come down to the studio on Tuesday - we're recording," and it didn't matter what the project was, the same group of dudes would be there.

when i interviewed shannon jackson in the early 90s he sang bonham's praises but didn't mention baker at all lol

So one in a hundred times it would be Ginger and the other 99 would be Anton Fier?
(xp)