Nick Cave : Classic or Dud ?

Nick's new legion of hipster fans and edgy moms will be all over it

Hipster fans and edgy moms how? Haven't heard the new one yet, but why do you think this is the case?

dnftt

the good bits on this are really so good that i already regret being vaguely dismissive of it earlier when i was halfway through it

I had already pre-ordered it so I think I might hold off on listening to it again until I have the physical copy in a month or so, but on first blush it wasn't really for me, certainly the obvious next step after Skeleton Tree, but not as engaging

The bit I heard there was some (relatively) high-register singing. Was that Nick, or Ellis, or someone else?

I couldn't really tell, feels like it wasn't always Nick or Warren

I don't know that anyone is gonna write a better Nick Cave song than Elena Setien this year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43rYIsnoPug

at the end of "Hollywood" i'm pretty sure it's Cave who sings for a while in a higher register

tried cutting it down to five tracks because i found the first disc to be a bit too meandering and found it to be completely transcendent like this:

Ghosteen
Bright Horses
Night Raid
Galleon Ship
Hollywood

Idk about y'all but I'm crying to every single beautiful and devastating song on this album

this was a lovely listen

I must say I never dreamed I would hear a Yamaha DX7 bell on a Nick Cave album ("Night Raid"). I don't begrudge him wanting to make beautiful music to mourn his son but I feel uncomfortable listening to it.

certainly the obvious next step after Skeleton Tree, but not as engaging

― chr1sb3singer, Friday, October 4, 2019 9:08 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

so if I found Skeleton Tree difficult and dull, I'm going to find this one borderline unlistenable, yes?

it's much better imo, but i found skeleton tree to be mostly tension without much release. this one's much prettier and there's more to grab onto, at least for me. i still think it's a little much overall but the highs on it are incredible and some of his best ever work

i kinda do hope that since this one is supposed to be the "end of a trilogy" they'll make something more rocking next time, but keep the wonderful sound design from these last few albums around

i love the all tension no release quality of skeleton tree. it's like it's stuck in a loop. ghosteen seems like the other side of its coin, all that tension in service of total gorgeousness

"night raid" is incredible btw

tried cutting it down to five tracks because i found the first disc to be a bit too meandering and found it to be completely transcendent like this:

Ghosteen
Bright Horses
Night Raid
Galleon Ship
Hollywood

― ufo, Friday, October 4, 2019 6:09 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

i respect this reduction bc these are all the songs that blew my mind on contact, but i think i’d still miss the others particularly “spinning song” and “leviathan”

my initial read on this album still feels correct, so good job me. "Bright Horses" got me right in the gut on second listen and I suspect I'll feel that way about much of this soon

Fried Egg Sandwich at 6:15 4 Oct 19

Worthy but tedious album. A real slog to get through. I'm sure the Guardian will love it and Nick's new legion of hipster fans and edgy moms will be all over it, but I miss the Bad Seeds as a band and the excitement and energy from their old albums.

yeah really sad to see Nick Cave appealing to hipsters as opposed to his old working class, salt of the Earth, sports bar crowd cranking The Good Son from their Ford F150s

on first listen, I don't like it as much as Skeleton Tree but feels like something that could grow with further listens

I absolutely love Push the Sky Away but always seems to get a lukewarm response on ILM

“edgy moms” jfc

sheesh, moms are the worst

i don't know if i think the whole is better than skeleton tree but i'm pretty sure part 2 is the best thing he's done this decade

i'm pretty sure part 2 is the best thing he's done this decade

with the analogue synths and the choir sounds... it's like he's singing over a Kosmische album from the late 70s sometimes

the second disc is absolutely better than push the sky away and i say this as a big fan of that album

weirdly what this album reminds me the most of is magical cloudz which i never really expected from a nick cave record

haven't fully digested it but surprised anybody would prefer it to the last two. It's certainly beautiful and but seems to be a bit too soundtracky (and not unlike some of Cave and Ellis's soundtracks) and a bit too lacking in variety and tension? And surprised anybody would say Skeleton Tree is all tension and no release, when the penultimate song Distant Sky is perhaps the most beautiful recording of the last 10 years.

for me it's the most interesting thing he's done, or at least the thing i like the most since Abattoir Blues. probably because some of the first disc definitely sounds influenced by mid 90s Current 93.

the opening of the title track feels very "warszawa" to me

the whole album is continuing to grow on me, i think i was caught off-guard by it opening with "spinning song" which is one of the most minimal and skeleton tree-like tracks, but i even like that a lot now. "ghosteen speaks" is the only one i haven't gotten into yet, it's still quite formless and is mostly synth drones plus backing vocals "wwhoaaaaaaaaa" over and over

with the analogue synths and the choir sounds... it's like he's singing over a Kosmische album from the late 70s sometimes

I'm sold on that!

Or like a later Alice Coltrane record, which both he & esp Ellis are noted fans of

Hmm, thinking of this in terms of one of Alice Coltrane's ashram cassettes helps. My first listen found it too tract-like, too dependent on the words to click. But framing it as devotional pondering may help.

https://i.imgur.com/REug3mx.jpg

Nick what do you think Antifa is fighting for

http://www.theredhandfiles.com/why-do-you-write/

Or against, rather

nick: "self-righteous belief and the suppression of contrary systems of thought" is bad. "lack of humility" is bad. "paternalistic and doctrinal sureness" is bad.

also nick: people who are religious and believe in god are indisputably wrong and should probably be shunned.

i couldn't care less if people believe in god but i found his antifa commments quite shocking.

No one even brought up Antifa, he could have left it at his thoughts on woke culture, which I disagree with but whatever, old white dudes gonna old white dude

whatever, old white dudes gonna old white dude

bravo

I was at his Sunday 'Conversations...' show here in SF -- which was quite good -- and he did talk about free speech as such in the context of his version of "Stagger Lee" but didn't go THAT far, let's say. But I did think "Hmm..." when I heard it.

Bunch of UK and European dates announced for next year:

https://www.nickcave.com/tour-dates/

Lotte Lehmann, the German soprano, had this line about how 'only that is convincing which is truly felt' and as I listen to Ghosteen I'm tempted to reverse it: clearly I'm meant to feel something, but that putative emotion is buried deep in layers upon layers of smug theatrical artifice. I don't buy his incantations in the least, and all I'm left with as a newcomer to his oeuvre is the man's Reputation.

I think that's fair, or at least not unfair. Context carries a lot of weight on this album. Getting into Cave via this album would be a little like diving into Autechre and starting with "All End."

He's not even that great in concert these days. Around the time of Henry's Dream and Let Love In the concerts were extraordinary, the Bad Seeds were such a force back then. Some of the best live shows I ever saw. I find Cave's shows quite boring now.

Having gone to one of the Skeleton Tree arena shows it sort of worked, and I enjoyed it, but I'm not sure I have the urge to go this time round.

OTM about the Henry's Dream shows, they were the ones with the Mercy Seat endurathon version iirc.

I'm too much of a johnny-come-lately to have seen him around that time, but the Skeleton Tree shows were incredible for me, just this total communal love-fest.

the Push the Sky Away tour was fucking amazing

I don't dig the album, but I'd really recommend seeing Once More With Feeling before you dismiss it all as smug showmanship

tbh I think he's a bit lost but for understandable reasons

Yeah, I saw Once More With Feeling. In 3D! It was okay. Don't know if it was a necessary film to make, I just felt a bit sad after I saw it and wished the album was better. The Road To God Knows Where is good if you've not seen it.

Ellis is a weak link for me, I just don't like what he brings to the band. Sonically I find him a real turn off.

Lately I might agree with that. He's a wild man, so it's kind of too bad these days he's relegated to playing little micro synths or whatever. But when he picks up his violin or a guitar he's pretty rocking.