The Lysergic Acid Diethylamidiotic Joe Biden & Sarah Palin VP Presidential Debate thread in the 2 zero zero 8 (2008 party over oops)

How is getting momentarily choked up when talking about a hypothetical ailing child when your own child died a "non sequitur"?

Because it wasn't responding to a point or question?

just cause palin says "I'm a mom" that doesn't mean biden has to automatically say "I've been a mom too! a tragic tragic mom! *SNIFF*"

it seemed a bit reaching, that's all I'm saying

hey y'all:

this is kinda dumb but i've been in this kinda freefall panic about the whole election i've been TOTALLY avoiding all news and coverage and daily show and everything, so i just need to know cuz i've been worried all morning that they'd set expectations so super low that the big storyline coming out of the debate was going to be "palin shows her stuff" just because she seemed like halfway not retarded and they were gonna get some big bounce out of this like her convention speech....so is that happening?

hey there vikings fan

I don't wanna deny anybody their oprah moment, but come on, do you know how rehearsed these people are?

xp

too early to see a bounce but the general consensus is biden "won" xp

hey there vikings fan

― max, Friday, October 3, 2008 3:13 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

haha no shit...congenitally predisposed towards pessimism.

PALIN: me and todd had lotsa trouble sitting round the kitchen table at night, thinking 'bout sending kids to iraq, got a special needs kid right here in my papoose...

BIDEN: you've got a special needs kid? well mine's DEAD!

I know, I know, I'm going to hell

i dont get why ppl keep repeating the right wing "Who questioned his ability to be a parent???" thing.

i dont see why his response would only make sense in the context of someone challenging his parenting abilities!

Don't know how you guys can't see (or are unwilling to concede) that Biden's responding directly to / countering this bit of Palin's own non-answer...

But it wasn’t just that experience tapped into, it was my connection to the heartland of America. Being a mom, one very concerned about a son in the war, about a special needs child, about kids heading off to college, how are we going to pay those tuition bills? About times and Todd and our marriage in our past where we didn’t have health insurance and we know what other Americans are going through as they sit around the kitchen table and try to figure out how are they going to pay out-of-pocket for health care? We’ve been there also so that connection was important.

... in order to appeal to the same mom-and-pop straight-talkers that McPalin regularly aim for.

And if that shit was rehearsed, then Mission Accomplished, because it felt particularly genuine -- 100 times more so than Palin's golly-gee-whiz horseshit. And if Palin's going to user her kids as political props, then Biden going to that same well (which, again, I don't think was the intent, but I'm a softie) is totally fair game.

(xpost)

Biden ravaging Cheney during his wrap up (or right near it) was awesome, too. Just staring dead into the camera as he explained calmly and cogently what a monstrous piece of shit his (would-be) predecessor is.

Biden ravaging Cheney during his wrap up (or right near it) was awesome, too. Just staring dead into the camera as he explained calmly and cogently what a monstrous piece of shit his (would-be) predecessor is.

― flyover statesman (will), Friday, October 3, 2008 10:22 AM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i think i said this earlier but the undecided's reaction to that was off the charts

the corner is going crazy today about how biden is a big liar

Either Biden saved it as a heart-bomb or Biden didn't bring it up until the subject came up because he'd rather lose it on stage. Both seem possible (maybe he's genuine but aware of its value), but as I don't know how easy it is to fake tears about when your entire family was in a car accident and you lost half of it, I'm not gonna suggest he did based on what I saw.

"Need some wood?"

Haha, I said this aloud right after Biden said that he spends "a lot of time" at Home Depot.

sorry, rather NOT lose it on stage.

xpost to self

Have to agree, the Biden choke was a bit of a naked play for sympathy, I don't think Palin really needed to respond. If Palin had choked up about something, people would be on to her like a ton of bricks.

I didn't understand what was happening when it happened: I thought he realized that he was going to fuck up by saying something sexist, and so clammed up for a sec before continuing. So I was like wtf, and my wife said, oh, he was tearing up thinking of what happened to his family. So I guess I buy the CW on what this was, but was genuinely puzzled at first.

Don't know how you guys can't see (or are unwilling to concede) that Biden's responding directly to / countering this bit of Palin's own non-answer.

It wasn't a direct response! As theatre it worked, sure, but politicians showing too much emotion in these situations creeps me out, sorry.

"Message: I care."

biden's choke-up might have had an element of histrionics, but even so, he effectively worked himself up into the actual emotion, and in the aftermath, he channeled this emotion very effectively i thought, right back on message, at the issues (the kitchen table - they're looking for help - they don't want more of the same).

It wasn't a direct response!

73% of Biden and Palin's answers weren't direct responses, big deal

If Palin had choked up about something, people would be on to her like a ton of bricks.

Thing is, I saw her working really, really hard last night. There were a couple of moments, including in her (non)response to Biden's little emotional moment where I could almost see her remembering her coaching about her emotional response and then uttering some of the biggest nonsense I've ever heard.

Did Cheney consider running for the Republican nomination at all?

PALIN: me and todd had lotsa trouble sitting round the kitchen table at night, thinking 'bout sending kids to iraq, got a special needs kid right here in my papoose...

BIDEN: you've got a special needs kid? well mine's DEAD!

lololololol

when it comes to a guy remembering what it was like to suddenly lose half his family and wonder if he was doing the right thing by staying in senate despite his surviving sons being critically injured, i wouldn't presume to know what would be "too much emotion."

it's fine if you don't think it was a great or touching moment or if you're uncertain of its intent or genuineness. but i can't imagine why the fuck you'd want to be the guy goin' "bullshit."

x-post Palin coulda gotten away with choking up about her decision to keep her baby, would have been slammed for crying about how hard bein' a veep candidate is.

i'm thinkin "genuineness" may not be a word.

i dont get why ppl keep repeating the right wing "Who questioned his ability to be a parent???" thing.

if a diehard lefty like myself came away with the same perception independently, maybe there's something to it.

it's a great moment, very effective, very cinematic. but it also reads scripted (notice how he sticks the landing by ending up on message), shoehorned into the context, like a direct response to a challenge that was never issued.

But the notion that somehow, because I’m a man, I don’t know what it’s like to raise two kids alone, I don’t know what it’s like to have a child you’re not sure is going to — is going to make it — I understand.

I understand, as well as, with all due respect, the governor or anybody else, what it’s like for those people sitting around that kitchen table. And guess what? They’re looking for help. They’re looking for help. They’re not looking for more of the same.

if you don't think Biden was authentic, I can't help you (or, as Biden would say, God love you)

Palin got flustered because she knew it had a political impact and she knew she couldn't attack him for it (or, for lols, she wanted to compare him to Hillary's teary moment, and then remembered she's supposed to looove Hillary)

palin could never have choked up because she wasn't competent enough to go off script and ad lib like biden did

he came across as if he knew this stuff, she came across as if she'd been taught it (v. recently too)

^^^

I don't doubt Biden worked himself up into the actual emotion, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a tactical move. McCain had a seriously awful time in Vietnam, but should we give him a free pass every time he mentions it?

cozwn otm

on the whole though, Palin didn't do well enough to change anything significantly thus = victory for Obama

all i kept thinking when she said "ahmadinejad" like six times in two minutes was, "damn i would love to have been in that prep room when they were teaching her how to say that"

McCain had a seriously awful time in Vietnam, but should we give him a free pass every time he mentions it?

uh wtf half his campaign is based on getting a "free pass" for it

but i can't imagine why the fuck you'd want to be the guy goin' "bullshit."

maybe because politicians are professional bullshit artists, and allowing yourself to be emotionally manipulated by them is not a reflex one should groom?

McCain had a seriously awful time in Vietnam, but should we give him a free pass every time he mentions it?

If Biden brings up his kid & wife half as much as McCain brought up (and continues to bring up) Vietnam, then he shouldn't (and wouldn't) get a free pass.

(xpost)

maybe because politicians are professional bullshit artists, and allowing yourself to be emotionally manipulated by them is not a reflex one should groom?

have any of us lost a child and our wife in an accident? do we know what that experience is like? can we think for a moment that maybe sometimes for people who have experienced these sorts of things, weird things and phrases may trigger memories and flashbacks and that we get choked up at unexpected times? or do we expected our politicians to be robots and just answer the damn question? it's manipulative, sure, but is really any worse than palin trotting out her goddamn kids and todd every chance she gets?

^^^^^

the big storyline coming out of the debate was going to be "palin shows her stuff" just because she seemed like halfway not retarded and they were gonna get some big bounce out of this like her convention speech....so is that happening?

― M@tt He1ges0n, Friday, October 3, 2008 10:12 AM (14 minutes ago)

seems unlikely to me. cable chatterers get super involved in the expectations game, which is fine i guess, but they seem to believe this is how really "middle america" grades debate performances, rather than treating the exercize as a self-check on whether the media had a correct view of the candidate to begin with. and what do you know, reaction polls are giving it to biden.

as Biden would say, God love you)

he really is Irish descent then!

Same injured kid is shipping out to Green Zone today, maybe?

palin was clearly making an effort to tone down her usual YA WANT SOME JUICE HON delivery - she often began a statement in that mode then realized how she was sounding abt 10 seconds in and dialed it back

still she couldnt really help it SAY IT AINT SO JOE DOGONIT!

There's no equivalence going on here, Que and David. Palin's response was about as inhuman and inept as I've ever seen.

i dont get why ppl keep repeating the right wing "Who questioned his ability to be a parent???" thing.

stfu

McCain had a seriously awful time in Vietnam, but should we give him a free pass every time he mentions it?

I'm sorry, has Biden been asking for a lot of "free passes" on this? How can you compare how Biden referred to his loss to how McCain has milked his POW past? And doesn't experience as a single parent (a widower, at that) relate to understanding single parents a lot more than being a POW relate to knowing how to win a war?

And as for why he may have been a bit high strung on a valid experience to bring up when discussing how family experience affects your political stances, let's not forget that Palin mentioned that his current wife's reward "is in heaven, right?"

really any worse than palin trotting out her goddamn kids and todd every chance she gets?

But Bristol, Track, and future son Levi weren't there!

I felt is was a bit rich that Palin talked about the worries of affording tuition when in the real world she's got one grown kid in the army and another whom college is the least of her problems now.

trotting out her kids= i meant talking about being a mom, hockey mom, a lipstick mom, mom mom mom, etc

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/10/03/leaked_from_palins_debate_prep.html

says it all. i don't know how many people picked up on how concerned she was to fill up the time window - to not reveal that she had a limited, canned spiel that she couldn't much talk beyond - but i think there was enough flailing in the answers and fleeting glimpses of panic that might have given it away to non-politics dorks.

every time she (or anybody) mentions "Todd" alls i can think of is

http://www.mtv.com/onair/beavisandbutthead/images/flipbooks/meet_cast/todd/todd5.jpg