I dare you to anticipate Joaquin Phoenix in Todd Phillips's JOKER (now with something that may or may not be a SPOILER)

The movie doesn't celebrate anything. It's joyless.

It can do both!

It can, but it doesn't really. The trailer was misleading.

Don't take that as a defense of Phillips, who is a dumbshit and basically just recreates Taxi Driver in broad strokes.

They're all not justifiable, but every Joker killing is either in the midst of getting his ass beat, self-preservation while being investigated, or a Sweeney Todd-ian revenge. Which is why he doesn't feel like Joker.

All other qualms aside, I appreciate that WB has responded to the pervasive criticism of DC adaptations as excessively grim & gritty by hurtling directly to bleak & nihilistic.

The dark knight version of the Joker mocked the idea that his sadism was rooted in any kind of psychic wound. It was just pure, iirc. Which was an aspect of the film Zizek praised.

xp

So, can we spoil details of the film now, because this:

They're all not justifiable, but every Joker killing is either in the midst of getting his ass beat, self-preservation while being investigated, or a Sweeney Todd-ian revenge. Which is why he doesn't feel like Joker.

― When I am afraid, I put my toast in you (Neanderthal), 3. oktober 2019 15:01 (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Is exactly where the film is withholding information :)

So the killings are not, in fact, as chaotic and random as we've been led to believe?

What even is this thing?

Who knows, the film isn't clear on how many people he kills... So it's impossible to say how random they are

What if the Joker's real victims are all of us?

Even thinking about the idea of this movie is bumming me out.

The weirdest thing to me is that this is a major studio release. If this had been an indie release with all the Bat-IP extracted, nobody would've batted an eye at its existence.

It's like if someone had an idea for a Saw sequel and was like 'but what if we used Riddler instead of Jigsaw'? And maybe we saw a batarang stuck in an alley wall at some point to remind people that this is supposed to be Batman-adjacent.

The Dark Knight was also incredibly glum, self-important, and a slog.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

i think this is why i'm more or less ok with "joker" existing. because films like this used to be taken as saying Serious Things about Society and I guess people are still doing that but more and more there's a recognition that this sort of thing is wallowing in unpleasantness. i mean shit i saw "henry, portrait of a serial killer", maybe this movie is 'worse' in some way than that film, i won't ever know for sure, but i'm not sure how it would be exactly.

I guess it’s theoretically worse because the antihero is iconic figure in pop culture so it is easier for antisocial types to rally around.

no, tho

p much every antihero is am attempt to create such an iconic figure, for a start

p much every such analysis projects the intent to do so or presupposes the sympathies of the director, for another

Nor was catharsis ever a thing, apparently.

The fact that the arc of this joker—feels mistreated, turns to terrorism in order to “be seen”—is sickeningly common now is the bigger thing. I think that’s what is bleak about the film.

p much any such angle of interpretation depends on not liking something irl, deciding that this work encourages the thing disliked, therefore that is the merit upon which the work is to be judged

"this is just taxi driver but with the joker" is as well to say "this is just taxi driver" is as well to say " if taxi driver was released today id criticise it for what it speaks to in our society" which i mean congrats but cmon

Or the idea of it.

Again, i won’t see it. I don’t really watch movies.

No one would ever accuse a Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer of having a tone of triumphalism, or even the potential for being mistaken by those few lost souls as having that tone.

if you think this IP doesn't have special/built-in cachet among incel types I don't know what to tell you

xp imagine that someone does

what import

Hence my encouragement of movies with Nude Jake Gyllenhaal because I want the movie's merit to be judged by how much nude Jake we see.

Speaking of Joker Todd, I think they really missed an opportunity to make this a musical. Though at the rate Broadway is going, you gotta assume that's inevitable.

fully support that alfred, a clear and subjective but valid measure

Would love to force this movie to watch nudejakecoveringjunk.gif in an endless loop.

god we're gonna get a depp joker arent we

like, that is an evil waiting to happen, a joaquin joker i can be interested in

for those unfamiliar with this gif, allow me to acquaint you with this treasure:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fc/89/07/fc8907eacedb13acd3bdd48f2b0fa91d.gif

depp joker, jake batman, todd phillips directs are we building a compromise platform here or what

Fully nude Joker movie, in the style of Ancient Athenian drama. (They were nude when performing right?)

5-star gif

No one would ever accuse a Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer of having a tone of triumphalism, or even the potential for being mistaken by those few lost souls as having that tone.

― Pauline Male (Eric H.)

i wouldn't accuse present-day incels as being "triumphalist"! exceptionalist, sure, but it's not fundamentally about triumph, merely about justifying misery and assholishness. this is a shithole world, is the narrative, so i have no choice but to be a loathsome asshole; i am _required_ to perpetuate the cycle of violence and abuse. henry: portrait of a serial killer is exactly that sort of a wallow.

the greatest tragedy of this film is that it is yet another missed chance to adapt the 1970s "joker" limited series, clearly the high water mark of the character

Rush otm

this is the movie that's gonna keep that Hot Topic store at the mall that's not doing well in business

I haven't seen the movie yet—and probably won't, at least until it comes to netflix or something—but Gavia Baker-Whitelaw's review pretty much nails what I'm expecting of it

While Phoenix, Phillips, and co-writer Scott Silver didn’t plan to glorify the Joker, the story structure does exactly that. Joker is a power fantasy for the kind of person who has Arthur Fleck’s emotional problems and delusions of grandeur. At the start, he’s miserable, downtrodden, and overlooked by the world. By the end he’s a celebrity villain, sparking a violent uprising of people who copy the hair and makeup that previously made him a target for bullying. He’s also embraced his true identity as a dangerous, misunderstood outsider. Joker takes the themes and imagery of two classic Scorsese movies and tacks them over the simple struggle-and-victory arc of a superhero story.

I guess I don't think the movie's more likely to inspire violence than any other similar kinds of stories, I'm just struck by how rote the whole thing seems, by the degree to which Phillips et al have produced a multi-million dollar adolescent revenge fantasy while apparently being oblivious to that fact.

(The Baker-Whitelaw review also suggests that

Joker really buys into the old idea of queer-coded villainhood. This is a long-running trope in everything from Disney cartoons to Bond movies, and it’s different from actually portraying a character as gay. We know Arthur Fleck is attracted to women, illustrated by him stalking his neighbor. But subtextually, the film draws clear connections between his mental illness, his violent behavior, and his inability to perform traditional masculinity.

which frankly is about the only thing that sort of makes me want to see it)

“I guess I don't think the movie's more likely to inspire violence than any other similar kinds of stories, I'm just struck by how rote the whole thing seems,”

Exactly. K rose on the mark

Challop: ideally, reviews should be read after having seen the film, not before.

Going to shove Todd Phillips if I see him on the sidewalk. Maybe throw him in a trashcan.

further proof that this sick flick is already inspiring violence

At least it isn't inspiring waves of wanton feces-flinging like Phillips's first fillum.

god we're gonna get a depp joker arent we

Prior to Phoenix's casting, Leonardo DiCaprio had been considered.

I really feel cheated out of my Leo DiCaprio Joker.

I can forgive Phillips a lot if he makes another one and casts Alex Baldwin as Mr. Freeze.

Steve Buscemi as Clayface

cate blanchett as whoever she wants

blanchett as the ventriloquist's homicidal dummy scarface imo

Steve Buscemi as a variation on Killer Croc where he's just a regular human who kills people while wearing nothing but Crocs.

Or kills people with Crocs? In either case, it's Steve Buscemi and he's naked.