Rolling US Economy Into The Shitbin Thread

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recommend employee termination and powerhose purchase order, automatic notification to finance team...ok

It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 1 October 2019 19:05 (four years ago) link

the fancy tools probably were mostly eye candy, with benefits that seemed to underline that promise that they weren't gleaning personal data but only overall trends

But the people who read Fast Company were sharp enough to realize that this is Google & Facebook's business model applied to the physical world in the form of identity data gleaned from identifiable bodies who both live and work near the same biosensors 24 hours a day, and were able to connect the dots

So the money was coming from people who absolutely recognized this as a tech company. Had they been given another 5-10 years to collect data, it is very likely the money would not have had to come from rent, but from the life data of their customers. They couldn't exactly brag about this in their IPO roll out, but for all the people dunking on them for 'not being good at math', the real question is why we allow Google & Facebook's business models to remain legal in the United States

Milton Parker, Tuesday, 1 October 2019 19:13 (four years ago) link

Because advertising is the second best thing America is best at, after military technology

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 1 October 2019 19:19 (four years ago) link

So, you're saying the idea was not that the data would in any way be used to improve "everything from design to hiring". That was just a smokescreen. The idea was that reams of data about their tenants would be collected and sold to outside companies.

A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 1 October 2019 19:22 (four years ago) link

I imagine all that data gathering would make anyone concerned about business confidentiality a little hesitant to work there.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 1 October 2019 19:30 (four years ago) link

🤟

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 1 October 2019 19:33 (four years ago) link

not a smokescreen, I imagine they trusted those machines to help with design & hiring -- but the real money is in gleaning personal data for AI to learn from. the trends lead to predictions, and accurate predictions can be sold. it doesn't have to be the kind of spying we've already grown acclimated to on gmail, though seeing as we've somehow learned to accept that -- you can see why investors were ready to gamble on what could happen if We became normal

about business confidentiality -- man alive's point is well taken, even given the fact that they're clearly after a different kind of data. I mean it all sounds insane & like I'm connecting one too many dots, but you really have to take Son at his word when he's discussing planet-sized ambitions like these. WeWork failed, but SenseTime is real

Milton Parker, Tuesday, 1 October 2019 20:10 (four years ago) link

it doesn't have to be the kind of spying we've already grown acclimated to on gmail

I don't use gmail, what is this a reference to?

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 1 October 2019 20:13 (four years ago) link

gmail searches your email for keywords in order to more effectively target advertising to you on other websites

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 1 October 2019 20:16 (four years ago) link

I just wouldn't really trust a company like that to not also be harvesting info off wifi connections, maybe even zooming in on screens with AI-assistance. I don't think my local Stumptown provider is doing that.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 1 October 2019 20:16 (four years ago) link

Not yet, not for their own purposes

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 2 October 2019 01:14 (four years ago) link

WeWork/SoftBank thread:

You haven’t even begun to see the anger that will be unleashed on Adam Neumann. He has 15,000 people right now who are stuck cleaning up. They feel like circus clowns shovelling the shit. He has taken $750M & left a toxic waste cleanup.

interview @nymag https://t.co/dEb19Qjdjl

— Scott Galloway (@profgalloway) October 1, 2019

... (Eazy), Wednesday, 2 October 2019 02:15 (four years ago) link

Also the longer interview with Galloway linked in that tweet:

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/10/marketing-expert-scott-galloway-on-wework-and-adam-neumann.html

... (Eazy), Wednesday, 2 October 2019 02:37 (four years ago) link

i've heard it's a fun read about things out of hand

Tart Prepper (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 2 October 2019 02:43 (four years ago) link

At least it’s a ~13 hour gap this time, not the ~7 hour loop that happened to xyzzzz on the UK politics thread today

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 2 October 2019 02:45 (four years ago) link

Whoops, my bad

... (Eazy), Wednesday, 2 October 2019 02:58 (four years ago) link

> The machines pick up all kinds of details

And yet they can't tell who is swiping all the candy bars...

koogs, Wednesday, 2 October 2019 05:11 (four years ago) link

It's probably worker 823-B, I don't trust him.

koogs, Wednesday, 2 October 2019 05:13 (four years ago) link

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-01/toyota-typifies-ugly-month-with-16-slide-auto-sales-update

The severity of the slide stokes fears that a long-anticipated car sales collapse may be arriving. The slowdown puts auto dealers already struggling with shrinking profit margins in an even more precarious position.

El Tomboto, Wednesday, 2 October 2019 15:47 (four years ago) link

Hope so.

president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Wednesday, 2 October 2019 16:04 (four years ago) link

By Lucy Bayly (NBC)

Wall Street took another slide on Wednesday, just two days into the new quarter, as disappointing employment data and a contraction in manufacturing activity fueled fears of a recession.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped by around 525 points, or 1.97 percent, on Wednesday morning, wiping out all gains for the third quarter. The S&P 500 suffered a similar fate, falling 1.85 percent and erasing any yield for the last quarter. The tech-heavy Nasdaq lost 1.75 percent as Amazon, Apple, and Microsoft fell.

President Donald Trump blamed the Democrats for the market sell-off, tweeting that "impeachment nonsense" was driving down "the Stock Market, and your 401K’s."

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 October 2019 16:05 (four years ago) link

congratulations to the FTSE100 btw

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 2 October 2019 16:55 (four years ago) link

In other news, the market is apparently not too sanguine on $2000 exercise bikes that cost another $40/month to operate

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 2 October 2019 17:10 (four years ago) link

What now?

☎ (peace, man), Wednesday, 2 October 2019 23:23 (four years ago) link

oh peloton.

☎ (peace, man), Wednesday, 2 October 2019 23:26 (four years ago) link

oh pelotonpaws

Tart Prepper (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 3 October 2019 00:37 (four years ago) link

Good stuff in this (long) essay: http://bostonreview.net/forum/lenore-palladino-american-corporation-crisis%E2%80%94lets-rethink-it

DJI, Thursday, 3 October 2019 00:49 (four years ago) link

My 1-year old nephew who lacks basic language and object permanence will get bored and stop playing after two or three rounds of peekaboo, you know. https://t.co/DeSphYS8iE

— Quantian (@quantian1) October 11, 2019

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 11 October 2019 18:31 (four years ago) link

anecdotally, it seems like the market is more volatile these days - so many swings of 1% or more, in either direction. but maybe it's not?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/VIXCLS

is ^that^ a decent indicator?

It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone), Friday, 11 October 2019 18:40 (four years ago) link

That’s a measure of expected future volatility, but I think it tracks historical vol pretty well.

o. nate, Friday, 11 October 2019 18:42 (four years ago) link

it seems like it should be easy to find historical volatility data, but for some reason i keep running across the VIX instead

It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone), Friday, 11 October 2019 18:49 (four years ago) link

but let's face it, i'm a rookie

It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone), Friday, 11 October 2019 18:49 (four years ago) link

Look for S&P 500 realized volatility index. Realized is the more common term.

o. nate, Friday, 11 October 2019 18:58 (four years ago) link

thanks!

It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone), Friday, 11 October 2019 19:19 (four years ago) link

every part of this graf is amazinghttps://t.co/IYkNJTn8ho pic.twitter.com/hfsCCdGm14

— rat king (@MikeIsaac) October 22, 2019

mookieproof, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 15:00 (four years ago) link

mr neumann's work sure is worth a lot of money, he must have really good ideas

It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 22 October 2019 15:49 (four years ago) link

meritocracy

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 16:02 (four years ago) link

someone who gets stuff decrypt this for me

What is the Fed not telling us?
I'm asking for a friend. pic.twitter.com/BZK0XuLloV

— Sven Henrich (@NorthmanTrader) October 23, 2019

Simon H., Sunday, 27 October 2019 18:30 (four years ago) link

That graph is in HOLY SHIT!!! territory. Some truly enormous financial institution(s) is hemorrhaging money in great, gushing multiple-firehose outflows and coming to the Fed to paper it over. Doesn't matter if it is a US bank or not, because in a dire emergency that other (think EU) central bank can't handle, the Fed is now willing to backstop them to the hilt. Timing suggests this may have more to do with Brexit than anything happening in the USA.

A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 27 October 2019 18:52 (four years ago) link

Repos are cash injections into investment banking. Very short term (usually, overnight) loans to increase liquidity and drive interest rates down.

Clearly the Fed sees lenders becoming cautious, and more astute market observers than myself have already declared we're presently in a recession which began late-summer.

The Fed has pumped hundreds of billions into the market through 'repo' offerings. Here's what they are, and why they're back for the first time since the financial crisis.

Self Disabuse (Sanpaku), Sunday, 27 October 2019 18:56 (four years ago) link

Unless the Fed is somehow driving banks to take repos they don't want or need, those repos are being actively sought by banks to address a need for liquidity that cannot be addressed by regular markets. Generally speaking, no bank wants to be pegged as a glutton for repos, because as soon as this appetite is known to the open markets, their reputation for safety and stability goes into the toilet - at least until the reason for the repos is driven into the open and can be assessed directly.

A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 27 October 2019 19:10 (four years ago) link

That's an interesting chart. I'd be also curious to understand why the Fed's repo operations went to zero in 2009 and stayed there for 10 years. From the graph, it looks like it was normal for the Fed to have 20-40 billion in repos outstanding in years before 2008.

o. nate, Monday, 28 October 2019 02:05 (four years ago) link

This is a guy who draws lines on charts

Based on the implications of this chart odds are very high the Fed will stop raising rates at or before the 1993 lows.
They are after all the lower highs team chasing the fantasy only dot plot. pic.twitter.com/1qxP63cz3Q

— Sven Henrich (@NorthmanTrader) August 15, 2018

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 28 October 2019 02:35 (four years ago) link

The guy's chart that bothered me was just the raw numbers from the Fed, without his overlaid slanty lines that are supposed to be predictive.

A is for (Aimless), Monday, 28 October 2019 02:48 (four years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Why the US economy isn’t as competitive or free as you think
Martin Wolf

It began with a simple question: “Why on earth are US cell phone plans so expensive?” In pursuit of the answer, Thomas Philippon embarked on a detailed empirical analysis of how business actually operates in today’s America and finished up by overturning much of what almost everybody takes as read about the world’s biggest economy.

Over the past two decades, competition and competition policy have atrophied, with dire consequences, Philippon writes in this superbly argued and important book. America is no longer the home of the free-market economy, competition is not more fierce there than in Europe, its regulators are not more proactive and its new crop of superstar companies not radically different from their predecessors.

Philippon, a professor at New York University, is one of a list of brilliant economists of French origin now teaching in the US. Others include the recent Nobel-prize winner Esther Duflo, at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Olivier Blanchard, former chief economist of the IMF, and Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman, both now at Berkeley.

It is not obvious, however, that these people share all that much, apart from their national origin and an inclination not to take free-market platitudes for granted. Sceptics of Philippon’s controversial thesis might assert that a French economist must be ideologically opposed to American capitalism. But Philippon insists that he believes passionately in the value of competition. Indeed, The Great Reversal contains a chapter arguing just that. Moreover, each step in his argument is based on meticulous analysis of the data.

He crisply summarises the results: “First, US markets have become less competitive: concentration is high in many industries, leaders are entrenched, and their profit rates are excessive. Second, this lack of competition has hurt US consumers and workers: it has led to higher prices, lower investment and lower productivity growth. Third, and contrary to common wisdom, the main explanation is political, not technological: I have traced the decrease in competition to increasing barriers to entry and weak antitrust enforcement, sustained by heavy lobbying and campaign contributions.”

All this is backed up by persuasive evidence. Those prices of broadband access in the US are, for example, roughly double what they are in comparable countries. Profits per passenger for airlines are also far higher in the US than in the EU.

The analysis demonstrates, more broadly, that “market shares have become more concentrated and more persistent, and profits have increased.” Moreover, across industries, more concentration leads to higher profits. Overall, the effect is large: the post-tax profit share in US gross domestic product has almost doubled since the 1990s.

There are a number of reasons for the increase in market concentration. In manufacturing, competition from China played a role by driving weaker domestic competitors out of the market. For the rest of the economy, we need other explanations. In the 1990s, superstar companies, including the retail giant Walmart, drove the rate of investment and productivity growth upwards. The reverse happened in the 2000s, however: rising market concentration drove the profits of entrenched companies up and both the investment rate and productivity growth down.

This malignant form of increased concentration reflects significantly diminished entry of new businesses and greater tolerance of merger activity. In other words, the US economy has seen a significant reduction in competition and a corresponding rise in monopoly and oligopoly.

To drive the argument home, the book turns to comparisons with the EU. Many readers will laugh: after all, isn’t the EU an economic disaster? When one compares changes in real gross domestic product per head, the answer, however, is: not really.

From 1999 to 2017 real GDP per head rose by 21 per cent in the US, 25 per cent in the EU and 19 per cent even in the eurozone, despite the damage done by its ineptly handled financial crisis. Levels of inequality and trends in income distribution are also less adverse in the EU, so increases in incomes have been more evenly shared.

In short, comparisons between the EU and the US are justifiable. These show that neither profit margins nor market concentration have exploded upwards in the EU as they have done in the US. The share of wages and salaries in the aggregate incomes — so-called “value-added” — of business has fallen by close to 6 percentage points in the US since 2000, but not at all in the eurozone. This destroys the hypothesis that technology is the main driver of the downward shift in the share of labour incomes. After all, technology (and international trade, as well) affected both sides of the Atlantic roughly equally.

Note that Philippon is making a narrow claim about differences in product market competition. The EU economy is not stronger in all respects, he stresses. On the contrary, “The US has better universities and a stronger ecosystem for innovation, from venture capital to technological expertise.”

Nevertheless, competition in product markets has become far more effective in the EU over the past two or three decades. This reflects purposeful deregul­ation within the single market — ironically, given the tragedy of Brexit, a UK-driven policy innovation that originated with Margaret Thatcher — and a more aggressive and independent competition policy. The two sides of the Atlantic have switched their focus on the need to preserve and promote competition.

One fascinating proposition is that the EU has established more independent regulators than either its individual members or the US would do (or have done). This is a healthy result of mutual distrust within the EU. Individual states abhor the idea of being vulnerable to the whims of fellow members when it comes to regulation and so prefer fully independent institutions. This is particularly beneficial to countries with weak national regulators. The independence of its regulators also makes returns to lobbying relatively low in the EU.

The evidence is clear. The higher an EU member country’s product market regulation in 1998, the bigger the sub­sequent decline in such regulation. The effect is also far stronger for members of the EU than for non-EU members.

These developments reflect differences in politics. Lobbying, both against deregulation and for favourable regul­ation, is much fiercer in the US. Overall, evidence strongly supports the notion that this lobbying, which is inevitably dominated by big companies, works. Why else would people pay for it?

The data on the role of money in US politics are even more dramatic. Members of Congress spend about 30 hours a week raising money. The Supreme Court’s perverse 2010 “Citizens United” decision held that companies are persons and money is speech. That has proved a big step on the journey of the US towards becoming a plutocracy.

As former representative Mick Mulvaney (a man gaining a reputation for beguiling honesty) stated in April 2018, “If you’re a lobbyist who never gave us money, I didn’t talk to you. If you’re a lobbyist who gave us money, I might talk to you.” One can indeed get the best congressperson money can buy.

Corporate lobbying is two to three times bigger in the US than the EU. Campaign contributions are 50 times larger in America than in the EU.

The Great Reversal also examines the situation in three crucial industries: finance, healthcare and “Big Tech”.

On finance, the startling finding is that the cost of intermediation — how much bankers and brokers charge for taking in savings and transferring them to end users — has remained around two percentage points for a century. All those computers have made no difference. This then is a rent-extraction machine. That really has to change.

There are two things about America that most outsiders will never understand: its gun laws and its healthcare system. The US spends far more on healthcare (not much below a fifth of GDP) and yet has far worse health outcomes than any other high-income country. How has this happened?

The answer is that the system creates rent-extracting monopolies from top to bottom: doctors, hospitals, insurance companies and pharmaceutical businesses all feed at this overflowing trough.

Finally, Philippon sheds light on what he calls the “GAFAMs” (Google, Amazon, Facebook, Apple and Microsoft). He demonstrates that the economic weight of these titans of tech is no bigger than that of the giants of the past. But their links to the economy as a whole are far smaller. It is no surprise, therefore, that their impact on productivity growth has also been relatively modest.

The author convincingly challenges the view that these businesses’ mono­poly positions are the natural product of economies of scale and network effects. So something can and should be done. In rising order of radicalism, these would be: preventing dominant comp­anies from acquisitions or forcing them to divest; limiting their ability to exploit dominant positions by imposing interoperability with other networks and data portability; and breaking them up.

The Great Reversal also notes the rise of monopsony — the monopoly power of buyers — in labour markets, via restrict­ive contracts, occupational licensing and restrictions on entry. Deregulation needs to focus on such barriers.

As economists have known since Adam Smith, business on its own will pursue restraints on competition, and with great enthusiasm. The outcome is rentier capitalism, which is both inefficient and politically illegitimate. The difficulty, however, is that it can be far too easy for incumbents to buy the political and regulatory protection it desires.

What should the US want? The answers, suggests Philippon, are: free entry; regulators prepared to make mistakes when acting against monopoly; and protection of transparency, privacy and data ownership by customers. The great obstacle to action in the US is the pervasive role of money in politics. The results are the twin evils of oligopoly and oligarchy.

Donald Trump is in so many ways a product of the defective capitalism described in The Great Reversal. What the US needs, instead, is another Teddy Roosevelt and his energetic trust-busting. Is that still imaginable? All believers in the virtues of competitive capitalism must hope so.

-_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 15 November 2019 21:10 (four years ago) link

I have traced the decrease in competition to increasing barriers to entry and weak antitrust enforcement, sustained by heavy lobbying and campaign contributions

Anyone who disbelieves this or thinks it is controversial has not been paying attention. It's all happened out in the open, for everyone to see.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 15 November 2019 21:14 (four years ago) link

Very interesting article. The big internet companies get most of the attention but seems like concentration is happening across the economy and some of the more harmful cases are in old economy industries.

o. nate, Friday, 15 November 2019 21:40 (four years ago) link

cf Matt Stoller who has a very good newsletter

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 15 November 2019 21:51 (four years ago) link

otm xp. e.g. aside from healthcare access and insurance, *competition* in healthcare is non-existent and/or corrupt.

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 15 November 2019 21:54 (four years ago) link


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