www.rateyourmusic.com C/D?

we all go through that stage

As long as you don't grant full marks to the most banal recording of Beethoven's 9th imaginable whilst sneering at everything else, you're golden.

xp

this is probably pretty obvious to all of you, but i legitimately don't think i "get it."

You don't have to rate anything, you can just check out people's lists and discover cool new stuff.

but, like. . . that's what i do here.

and you guys are much more fun.

I suppose there is some community in rym forums but it’s pretty much just a tool.

Yeah there's no lack of tedious admin in my life. And how I rate stuff changes every day anyway, I could never keep up.

it’s pretty much just a tool

i know what you meant here, but i like my interpretation better.

As long as you don't grant full marks to the most banal recording of Beethoven's 9th imaginable whilst sneering at everything else, you're golden.

xp

― pomenitul

i mean i dig the fricsay over the karajan but you know, it's not actually _wrong_ for "kind of blue" to be your favorite jazz album

i love this place for discussing music but for finding new stuff, honestly, i don't find a lot of stuff from the rolling threads compared to rym lists. and even though the relative inaccessibility of 2009-era ilx spares us a lot of unpleasant bullshit, i bet there were some good recommendations in some of those threads.

Can't say I agree with the comparison. Kind of Blue mops the floor with Karajan's Beethoven 9, and I don't even hate Karajan (his Bruckner was nonpareil).

And re:

honestly, i don't find a lot of stuff from the rolling threads compared to rym lists

This is true for me as well. There's just so much more to pick from on RYM due to the sheer numbers.

how I rate stuff changes every day anyway, I could never keep up.

I've made peace with that. It's not perfect, but there's some underlying consistency (when I revisit an album I rated a year ago, I'll be in tune with my initial assessment 8 times out of 10).

I pretty much only use it to keep track of stuff I like, so usually the only thing I have to decide is whether to rate it 4 or 5 stars. Generally I reserve 5 stars for things I’ve liked for a long time.

randomly ran across lovelyanimal's rym page again, they use spotify a lot and i don't so much of what they listen to is mysterious and inaccessible to me but such an amazing listener, have no idea how they manage (well ok they use spotify and i don't that probably helps)

For someone who's rated that many albums (26,431 as of this writing), his *15* five star picks are not quite what I expected:

https://rateyourmusic.com/collection/Vadim_Whitefish/r5.0

Black Holes and Revelations only gets 3.5 stars!? he may have rated 26,000+ albums, but I'm willing to bet that he's never ~heard~ a single note of music in his life

And while recording all of Liszt's music for solo piano is an imposing achievement in its own right, Leslie Howard's performances are some of the most cursory I've ever heard.

I'm consistently astounded and more than a little worried by my inability to even so much as vaguely recall some of the albums I've rated, especially those that didn't make it to 3 stars.

been too busy to check out much new music lately - my default site for seeing what people are listening to now is still rym, though

looks like the #1 album right now is the new black dresses, which i feel like i'm _supposed_ to like because, well, you know, but i've honestly never related to their stuff. much respect to the both of them of course. the rest of it is i just don't even know. the new black curse record sounds nice? but then there's all this other blehhhh metal and records by 40 year old neo-prog bands and "wacky" people like igorrr who play every musical genre SIMULTANEOUSLY, i mean i'm not opposed in theory to a combination of baroque music and breakcore but just saying "hey on this record mash up baroque music and breakcore" doesn't automatically make it GOOD, you know?

and then at #19 rym is arguing about whether black magick ss are nazis or not. they have a fucking swastika on the cover and the "SS" in the logo is, yes, twin lightning bolts. fuck off. seriously, it's 2020, if you can't get your modern music fix out of the considerable pool of musicians who _don't_ put multiple nazi-related symbols on their album cover i don't think i want to talk to you.

A couple of months ago I went ahead and deleted all the ratings I'd dished out on RYM over the years. Listening in terms of stars and half-stars, no matter how noncommittally, lessened my appreciation for music in that it subconsciously compelled me to mimic the would-be equanimous stance of the Ideal Professional Music Critic – an amusing intellectual exercice, provided it doesn't overstay its welcome, which it very much had. I am now back at the point where I simply have no interest in engaging with large swathes of new music touted as worthwhile by the RYM hivemind (among others…). 19 times out of 20 my initial intuition turns out to be a foregone conclusion, and I no longer have to patience to wade through recent flotsam and jetsam only to extract a pearl here and there, or to feel like I'm tuned into The (Small-Fry) Discourse.

As far as the current top 40 is concerned, the Ulcerate, the Spectral Lore / Mare Cognitum split, the Nicolas Jaar and the Fluisteraars are the only 2020 LPs I will undoubtedly revisit. The rest, which consists of ostentatiously 'artsy' pop/rock/metal/r&b/rap, etc. RYM catnip, makes me feel like the smug old coot that I am. It's almost always music by young 'creatives' who are far more conventional than they believe themselves to be or elder statesmen à la NIN who have certainly not made some of the most remarkable ambient music of 2020. And yeah, I too am quite tired of '"wacky" people like igorrr who play every musical genre SIMULTANEOUSLY' – so fucking what, Gautier? All that being said, RYM is still a better place to go trawling for new music than most.

Igorrr is absolute crap tbf, the kind of band people erroneously think I'd like

Anyway, if we're talking the current top 40, before next week's fairly dramatic chartbump-to-be, Slift is absolutely amazing and there's also at least one ilxor you're snubbing :P

Oh yeah, Slift is indeed the shiznit, I missed it somehow.

It's funny, because I do have the opposite stance; I go to RYM because I am an old lady and because I do want to engage with the hivemind, to find out what "the kids" are listening to. Which isn't something I feel like I could necessarily get from Pitchfork? And certainly isn't something I'm ever going to get from fucking Fantano. RYM has certain... flaws in its userbase (psychedelic nazis: #19), but it did also expose me to certain points of view that weren't common among people my age. I honestly do believe there are more trans women on that site than there are cis women, and that's not a situation that I think is ideal, but I'll take it over a site populated entirely by cis dudes.

Most of the stuff that makes my eyes glaze over on the list is music by people I've already heard and dismissed, the elder statesmen of rock music. Maybe the new Strokes album is great - people change over time, it's probably not fair to them that I hear their name and roll my eyes at the insufferable hype train for "Is This It?" and its cod-Mapplethorpe album cover - seriously, how could I ever be expected to have the slightest amount of respect for a heterosexual spin on Mapplethorpe? - and maybe I will eventually check the album out and love it. I will probably not check out either of the Nine Inch Nails "dark ambient" records or the DOOM Eternal video game soundtrack.

Some of the metal I do occasionally check out. Some of it I genuinely do like. There's just this whole crew of people who listen to metal and only metal and the records are everywhere in the ratings, and honestly, the TRVE CVLT METAL people are the opposite of what I'm looking for in music. I'm not looking for darkness or evil or _purity_ any more than I'm necessarily looking for "wacky" joke metal where they play klezmer and sing about hot dogs. I'm not opposed to either of those things. I am uncommonly fond of the Chunktrade demo, which is pure joke metal with song titles like "Zoophilic Prosthetic Rectum Masturbation" and a cover of the "Popeye" theme.

What I like in music is not so easily categorized in terms of genre or style, not so easily put into words. That's why I like the lists, which are sort of a manual way of Glenn's "deep learning" made-up genres, because it's a way of grouping music that doesn't require rational or analytic explanation. I can learn more about a song by listening to the first three seconds of it, in most cases, than I can by reading long paragraphs about it.

The criticism I most like is someone whose taste I trust to be interesting saying "Hey, listen to this!" - and nothing more. The RYM charts are hundreds or thousands of people echo-chambering, but a lot of a time the thing they're sitting in a room and amplifying is worth hearing. I can see why some people roll their eyes at the R.A.P. Ferriera record, but it's the sort of thing I will probably always have a sentimental fondness for, for instance. And even when it's not, even when what those kids are hype about sounds like edgelord bullshit to me... well, it's a good antidote to FOMO if nothing else!

I'm used to snubbing ilxors! I know there are ilxors who make really acclaimed music, ilxors who I like a lot as people, and the music has just never grabbed me. I don't necessarily correlate how I feel about someone with how I feel about their work, though I do try to avoid listening to music made by living human beings if I have seen persuasive evidence that they are awful.

This Slift... and maybe I should take this to your thread LJ, lol, but it leaves me cold. I actually managed to listen to a whole song, and it's not bad, I've just heard what seems like thousands of other records that are indistinguishable from this. Specifically, I'd much rather listen to some old Litmus records.

Au contraire, I think RYM, when used well, offers an escape from certain hiveminds (as well as an overview of the ones that do exist). Witness, as I said elsewhere yesterday, the Pitchfork-industrial complex:

U guys can survey the reviews here - https://www.metacritic.com/music/fetch-the-bolt-cutters/fiona-apple/critic-reviews

― I eat fast foods (morrisp), Sunday, 19 April 2020 16:35 (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

That's why I use RYM. Everything (more or less) is covered, and every opinion is catered for. Not that many people are making a good fist of critiquing the Fiona Apple. (You think my liveblog yesterday was bad? You should read the RYM comment-box and negative reviews, lol)

an escape from certain hiveminds

Emphasis on 'certain'. Still, it's better than (almost) nothing.

the mere presence of negative reviews is pretty fuckin value-neutral to me if those negative reviews refuse to engage with the material cf. those people calling the fiona record "the ultimate karen album"

also there are way more people in that comment box talking about anthony fucking fantano, speaking of catered-for opinions

"thank god there's some difference of opinion here, even if the writing is garbage and no one knows what they're talking about"

Specifically, I'd much rather listen to some old Litmus records.

Lol I played with this band, unless it's a different one (there seem to be several)

btw if you're constantly railing against certain hiveminds i'd argue you haven't escaped them at all

With all due respect, Brad, sometimes I get the feeling that ‘engaging with the material’ means hearing it the way you do. Which is fair in some sense – our value judgments about art are never entirely subjective... to ourselves.

i mean, specifically concerning lj's liveblog, it was like he was hearing it through the pitchfork score instead of listening to the record or having any real engagement with the artist or what she's been trying to do. fair to hear it and feel unaffected or even annoyed by it but it trips into reactionary when you make it all about this self-satisfied striking against the dominant narrative

also you'll all find this unsurprising but i agree that our value judgments about art are never entirely subjective!

the fiona record is an instance of an artist fully pushing her music into a universe only hinted at on her previous record(s), these are the usual conditions that foster critical acclaim for an already-critically-beloved artist, before pitchfork's branding even enters it

Lol I played with this band, unless it's a different one (there seem to be several)

― varèse désserts (Matt #2)

the one with the mellotron

i think professional criticism has strong positive value. when i was younger i had this sort of zappa-style sneering distrust of "professional critics" as being, you know, this elite cabal of gatekeepers whose tyrannical hegemony we needed to overthrow.

that point of view was, i believe, bullshit. the criticism zappa got was fair and just and zappa wasn't able to take it, and his fans weren't able to take it, but their inability to _learn_ from that criticism does not make the critics the bad guys here.

i would say this that is a sort of thing as "critical hegemony", not in an intentional or absolute sense, but music is a social art form, and so, necessarily, is music criticism. i would say that amateur criticism is of a certain limited value but mostly serves to reinforce alternative hegemonical structures, which insofar as it contains the possibility to promote fascism is not something i'm particularly keen on. my experience of amateur criticism has been of value to me because it has taught me how to write better criticism and, in addition, some small knowledge of how to differentiate good criticism from bad criticism, which is a skill most people don't have much of, to our collective detriment.

mostly i'm wary of this "democratic" notion that anybody is as good at anything as anybody else. even considering there is no true empirical basis for criticism, i do consider brad, for instance, to be a better critic, for their critical writing to be generally of more value, than most of the collected reviews of rym. in a better world the low quality of that writing would be recognized and would lead to a greater appreciation of writing of the sort brad does, but that seems not to be a widespread viewpoint.

Sometimes a dismissive knee-jerk trashing is a reaction to that dismal sense of alienation you can get when your nominal peers are (yet again) unanimously creaming over something you find simply godawful. Well, maybe not entirely "simply" but is it worth digging for the complication if you're not getting paid to dig? I do now and then happily break new aesthetic ground in what I can appreciate but also it's silly to pretend that you can't (at some point) quite reliably know when a thing isn't worth bothering with, or indeed that preferences won from experience aren't, you know, a valid guide to goodness and fulfilment.

is it worth digging for the complication if you're not getting paid to dig?

imo yes! i mean, i feel like it's one of the on-going projects of this board and why this place is more than just people shitposting opinions at each other (some of the time)

if you don't want to dig deeper, that's fine, but why post a knee-jerk trashing like that to the internet? like, where is the benefit in dave marshing all over a record in public?

it's true that the worst thing about rateyourmusic is rating your music

that dismal sense of alienation you can get

My reaction to “hype” is mainly — “I wish the music I love received even half this rapturous praise!” I do try to separate the hype from the material, when I’m listening to the album; but it’s hard to keep your reception entirely uncolored by it (a 10.0 on Pitchfork feels like almost a challenge to find weak points).

Well that is something I find depressing about dismissive one star one line RYM 'reviews' but "sheer upright bass pablum" is good value for money IMO.

xxp

(xp I guess some of the music I love does indeed actually receive half, or more, as much praise... so what am I complaining about, lol)

LOL. Quantitative evaluation has a use after all.

it made me search "upright bass pablum" on youtube because i wanted to hear what such a thing could possibly sound like

the results were disappointing, tedx talks by upright bass players - i mean, good job parsing that search google but i don't actually want to watch a fucking tedx talk - and somebody building an upright bass out of garbage, which i would want to watch but isn't really a "music" video.

really though the best way to find "upright bass pablum" is to just search for "upright bass". i mean, fuck this bullshit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HAGjU9Ldx4

hard to get anything more out of that besides "youtube 'influencers' are trash" though!

Naysaying isn’t necessarily a form of edgelording. There is solace to be derived from the knowledge that other dissenters feel as you do.

xps

that Black Magick SS album is below a 3 now, lol

obviously a good thing to get the Nazi shit off the charts but it does remind me of something annoying about RYM, how sometimes a really good new album in an esoteric style will come out and the fans will jump all over it, then when it makes the charts it winds up getting downvoted by hundreds of people who never would've listened to it anyway. its a fate that's befallen a lot of my favorite albums of the last few years but it doesn't happen to Metal or VGM soundtracks because the general RYM userbase won't go there.

it happens with metal too. it just happened 2 or 3 weeks ago with Sweven who were topping that chart, only to be downvoted by the furious army of fans of the record that was second place by then

"it didn't matter if you liked them both, you had to pick one. you had to fight. in the great Oranssi/Ulcerate War of April 2020, you had to know which side you were on"

n.b. hoping fans of both those bands are much cooler than that obv

any time rym is mentioned on ilx is a dud

otm