PMs change and lol we're all gonna die (but brexit will never end)

the boles condescension is my favourite robert ludlum novel

i think Allison's forgetting that a lot of us have been treated to the depth of her intellect on Late Review and that's pretty shaky ground she's standing on right there

otm, what a dimwit she was on that programme.

it's a delicious idea tho that your GCSE results should disqualify you from being an education minister more so than say never having been to a state school in your entire worthless life

andrew, acc.mcdonnell some time back end of last year the lab dream of a WA would have in mind a future customs union suited to lab's wants and dreams*: this can't strictly speaking be pre-negotiated (bcz the WA doesn't allow for trade details to be pinned down) though it probably could (as of june 2017, which is when we're talking about) have been well signalled and agreed-on in back channels

lab aren't in a position to set out a plan, they're not in government. whether FOM actually ends and re-begins, or in effect carries on, depends on the nature of WA, but there's definitely a case for reading lab's manifesto claim as a lawyerly bit of sleight-of-hand (FOM as grounded by our current status in the EU will end with our current status). the question of the strained-ness of this reading really depends on how effective you think the sleight-of-hand is: the intent behind it is revealed more by lab's refusal to back the may version of WA (and refusal of no deal) than by anything said out loud.

*this was much mocked in the UK media as inveterate unicornism, by political opponents (as you;d expect) and by commentators confused by the fact that the WA was and is a precursor to the next stage of negotiations (even in the case of no deal) -- but among others donald tusk was happy to give it quiet approval

i shd add i'm making a bit of a distinction between the first half of 2017, which is when the manifesto in question was drawn up and when the strategy was evolving, and today -- when a lot of water has passed under the bridge. i don't necessarily think the stance and the strategy are exactly the same now (i fret when lab started calling for a second ref for example, but it was relatively recently and certainly not part-and-parcel with 2017 manifesto strategy)

not "i fret" but "i forget" lol

i fret a little

i mean me too but abt other stuff mostly

butts

who among us does not fret about butts

Make sure that you can say "I helped lay the foundations of a new society". #Lab19 pic.twitter.com/OQwZ15PHqQ

— John McDonnell MP (@johnmcdonnellMP) September 23, 2019

😍😍😍

reread the manifesto section on Brexit, on Labour's website, earlier and don't know if we covered it before but it states 'where immigration has put a strain on public services' which as a statement, even as conditional as it may be in this case (being too generous probably), just should never have been nor continue to be used

For areas where immigration has placed a strain on public services we will reinstate the Migrant Impact Fund and boost it with a contributory element from the investments required for High Net Worth Individual Visas.

?

_For areas where immigration has placed a strain on public services we will reinstate the Migrant Impact Fund and boost it with a contributory element from the investments required for High Net Worth Individual Visas._


?

grampasimpsonwalksindoor.gif

Probably the most singularly appropriate dn you’ve ever had

Looks like the NEC statement went through.

This is not the end of the fight - not even at this conference.

Tomorrow, #Lab19 will get to vote on the @labfreemvmt motion on freedom of movement and migrants' rights.

We are urging all our supporters at conference to now help campaign for this important motion 👇 pic.twitter.com/ngu7tljIdh

— Another Europe (@Another_Europe) September 23, 2019

some great bedwetting on ch4 news from labour conference

On PM they seemed sure the vote was going the other way so the editorial line was : this vote is seen as a confidence in the leadership test by many. I think it totally ruined the rest of the show for Evan Davies.

I heard David Lammy on the radio today, saying something along the lines of: "The Tories have/are leave, the LibDems have/are remain, what is/does Labour have? No hard brexit but maybe a better WA or perhaps a second referendum? That's no message. That doesn't wash."

Lammy otm. It's astonishing (for an ~outsider~) to see how Labour make themselves seem inadequate, even in the worst of times. BJ is PM ffs, Labour should be able to walk this, poll over +50 and take charge. But they can't close the ranks, and do not have a clear answer to the Brexit crisis. It's so frustrating. I think this was what Pom was getting at with Labour(istas) "not being remain enough".

Pretty much, but I'm selfish and ignorant and a total dickhead and misrepresenting other's positions for pointing it out, so what do I know?

what position would let labour poll at +50?

Because you’re having a go at people who probably agree with you on 95% of stuff?

We do agree on 95% of stuff, yes. But was I really having a go at anyone itt by expressing my dissatisfaction with Corbyn's handling of Brexit? I'm incidentally and unsurprisingly disappointed with the result of today's vote btw.

How Remain should they be? Lib Dem Remain?

harder

reread the manifesto section on Brexit, on Labour's website, earlier and don't know if we covered it before but it states 'where immigration has put a strain on public services' which as a statement, even as conditional as it may be in this case (being too generous probably), just should never have been nor continue to be used

In the world of actually trying to get money for things like equal educational opportunities (for example) for people who don't have a pot to piss in, it's completely normal to say, yes, immigration has had an impact on resources. It's how you get, or try to get, MORE resources. I know this from direct experience of a large migration of Somali people into Leicester in the early 2000s when The Netherlands got pretty unpleasant (Pim Fortuyn, ffs, it's like nothing ever changes) . There's a good report by the Open Society (Go Soros!) on this if anyone cares to read it.

No, composite 13 Remain.

2xp

xp could have fooled quite a few of us.

That 5% seems to get you pretty worked up.

Because you’re having a go at people who probably agree with you on 95% of stuff?

― gyac, Monday, September 23, 2019 8:27 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Eh?

xp

https://tenor.com/14zU.gif

How Remain should they be? Lib Dem Remain?

― Let them eat Pfifferlinge an Schneckensauce (Tom D.), Monday, September 23, 2019 8:30 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yes. Of course they should. Labour has let LibDem walk away with the remain vote, and they're stuck in the middle now.

That 5% seems to get you pretty worked up.

Understandably so?

Not really, as has been pointed out numerous times, you're in the same position as quite a few people you're railing against itt.

I don't know who's talking to who where anymore (which is prob my fault)

That doesn't make any sense.

xp

FPTP still exists, and as Starmer just said (paraphrasing), “it’s going to be Remain anyway”. People can vote Lib Dems and get hard Brexit or just waste their votes.

Yes. Of course they should. Labour has let LibDem walk away with the remain vote, and they're stuck in the middle now.

We'll see come the election - their current policy is stupid.

Short thread on Labour, Brexit and neutrality.

Labour's position, as I understand it, is:
1) May's deal (currently the only one agreed with the EU) is bad and Labour could negotiate a better one that includes CU, etc.

— Adam Standring (@AdamPolitics) September 23, 2019

thread needs a matt DC post saying "FFS WHY ARE YOU ALL STILL ARGUING ABOUT THIS GIVE YOUR COLLECTIVE HEADS A WOBBLE"

Otm, where are you allcaps Matt?

good thread
xp

@AdamPolitics otm, but needing a twitter user going by the name of "@AdamPolitics" to explain to us all what Labour's position is, is a huge part of the problem imo.

"Labour should be able to walk this, poll over +50"

I'll some of what you are drinking tonight!

*have some of your strong brew obv!

If Labour had claimed remain from the getgo, letting crazy clown BoJo ride the PM-ship for a while should have Labour well over the 50 percent imo.

(drinking rose tbf)