Open for Business: Canadian Politics 2019

He has to fuck off. To not have come totally clean last night. Nope. Go away.

There is indeed something quite gross about all the Bill 21 supporters and 'close our borders' conservatives celebrating this debacle, when they'd be the first to defend a right-leaning politician from such charges, tooth and nail. That said, hypocrisy is a juicy target regardless of one's own values.

In any case, we mustn't lose sight of the fact that a conservative government would be significantly worse for visible minorities, period.

I haven't even looked at reaction yet from the right. I agree with what you're saying here. And yet I was always going to have a hard time standing in line on a weeknight to prop up the Liberals. This is just too much. We don't vote directly for PM. Put someone else up front. Basically anyone.

And lose all the votes he's just gained in Quebec?

(Sorry, I couldn't help it.)

yes. the way i see it, if you're in a riding that could go either liberal or conservative and you let this tip you to Con; you're an idiot.

xposts

He has to fuck off. To not have come totally clean last night. Nope. Go away.

― maffew12, Thursday, September 19, 2019 10:52 AM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

He did say there was the Day O video.

The video was shot in the early 1990s, however, it’s not clear where it takes place ... He’s wearing a white T-shirt, and his jeans are ripped at the knees.

Grunge-era blackface

and lets be realistic, they're not changing leaders mid-campaign. if they wind up with a minority or in opposition after the election, they will probably start looking to do just that tho.

I'll forgive him if he records a calypso album immediately

lol

Btw, last year Scheer gave a dogwhistling speech in which he warned of 'forces of political correctness' so hearing him say that brownface was 'just as racist in 2001 as it is in 2019' is quite rich.

And lose all the votes he's just gained in Quebec?

I actually wondered about this, thinking about that legendary Bernier tweet.

I'm having trouble getting very worked up about this tbh. He did something dumb, not criminal, 18 years ago (+ earlier as a teenager at a Jesuit college in Quebec), for which he has apologized. I don't know that there's any reason to believe it was motivated by hate or mocking cruelty as opposed to clueless Orientalism - arguably, someone could make that accusation about having an 'Arabian Nights'/Aladdin theme for a party in the first place. Since then, he came to power in an election where he defended the right of Muslim women to wear the niqab while swearing citizenship against the Tories and BQ and has welcomed Middle Eastern refugees when they were getting turned away elsewhere. We knew he was a privileged goof who likes to wear embarrasing costumes; does anyone think this means he is likely to promote racist policies at any level? I wasn't leaning Liberal before and I'm not now but I don't think this calls for a resignation. Maybe I'm 2-5% more likely to vote NDP over Green to promote the representation of a leader who has dark skin and a turban full-time?

One photo last night, I didn't care, it's basically as you put it. Then this other stuff coming out is a bit much. Why mention Dayo and not whatever the hell else? What is going on here?

Why Green over NDP btw?

I do agree that dumbassery is likely the root cause of his past behaviour; he doesn't strike me as a closeted racist.

xp

That all (Sund4r's post) sounds about right to me, though pom is otm too. In a better world where politicians were always held to high standards, this would be disqualifying, but in this electoral system you're voting against people you hate not for you like imo (nb. I am American) and this helping the Conservatives in any way would be deranged.

For those who won't or don't have to vote Liberal, I'm curious how you're distinguishing the NDP from the Greens (uh, I assume no one here is considering other options). Climate change is my biggest issue, but I was pretty disappointed that the Green platform doesn't mention public transit at all.

xxp leave dayo alone!!1

And Scheer said those things as an elected official. I think that Trudeau being a teacher at the time and not a politician has to be addressed somehow, because I don’t think it is useful to conflates both predispositions. We all make mistakes and when are you an entitled rich brat, which Trudeau has all the reasons to be, it takes even more time to learn from mistakes; it doesn’t help than in Quebec, I will repeat, those are not considered mistakes and perhaps if I had been scolded back at Brebeuf maybe the learning happens earlier. Also, how many people do we think scolded him on that night in Vancouver? People were sure willing to take photos with him.

In the end what matters is the policy as an elected official, and there is so much worse damage he has done as a PM with say just the freakin Trans Mountain pipeline, which might not be his worst thing ymmv. And yet he won’t learn from that mistake too because we built a political system in which the consequences for mistakes are only weighed with caveat of the alternative: who among us wants Scheer back? After all, Trudeau did a tremendous job in reducing poverty, his promotion of a multicultural nation is relief in a world of right wing populism, assisted suicide and weed legalization are great.

What truly upsets me is that deep down I doubt that the NPD will surge after this, that Canmedia is just unable to give credit to the NPD as a political organisation. Is not just the coverage, but the love for all things centrism makes it hard for the NDP to be itself: a left wing response to Canadian centrism. It’s why Mulcair fell in the trap. It also upsets me that racism in parts of Canada will make it hard for Singh to gain momentum. No one cared about the Greens until the NDP elected a sikh. I don’t know if I would always vote for the NDP, but a strong NDP would make the liberals and consequently the PC more liable and accountable. Now we are in a shitty position having to choose between the Transmountain pipeline and Transmountain pipeline + dog whistling + austerity. Just like Trudeau wasn’t put in a position to learn from his brownface mistakes when he was in high school.

The second shitty thing is that in that context, if a teacher tomorrow in Sarnia is revealed to have used blackface, he loses his job and gets shamed to death and will probably won’t have a big enough platform to apologize and will most probably not be given a chance to learn from his mistakes. But both the conservatives and liberals, over and over and over get a chance.

I'm in an NDP riding and they've got a new candidate this year, as Hélène Laverdière is retiring. Chances of not losing it to the Liberals seem slim, if only because their candidate also happens to be a co-founder of Equiterre (which will likely sideline the Green Party completely), so I see no reason not to vote NDP again. There's the Bloc, too, I guess, but I highly doubt anyone gives enough of a shit anymore.

xps

Yeah, that's all otm, VHS.

As a side note, I do appreciate that Trudeau has implemented Bill C-76, which allows Canadians that have been living abroad for more than five years to vote as well. It doesn't concern me personally, as I've only been away for a year and plan on moving back (well, if at all professionally possible) but it's still an important step imho.

I'm leaning green over ndp, though it might be different if either of these parties had an actual shot of winning (either the election or my riding). I prefer to give my vote to a party which has the fight against climate change as their main focus (as it should be for all parties and every voter).

Also I want dental care. Very much so.

Unless it was violent or criminal, I don't really gaf what anyone did as a teenager, honestly.

If anyone else watched the Scheer/Singh/May Maclean's/CityTV debate, I don't think it's hard to see why someone might lean Green over NDP. Imo, May made detailed, well-informed, well-thought-out statements, while Singh tended to speak in sentimental generalities and repeat a catchphrase about how Liberals and Tories only help the people at the top. She actually seemed like she had done serious thinking about economics and a budget when she explained the list of taxes she planned to bring in to pay for increased services and why it made sense to make pharmacare free and universal before dental care. She wants to commit to a hard target for emissions and was v good at hammering Scheer on Tory opposition to the UN declaration on indigenous rights and the FIPA with China. Singh has always been weirdly evasive about the LNG project in BC. I preferred May to Mulcair in 2015, btw, and also preferred the Green platform to the NDP's then. I voted for Paul Dewar despite his party. If a Green vote throws my riding to Catherine McKenna, I can live with that. If the Conservatives had a chance of winning Ottawa Centre, the election would probably already be a lost cause.

Btw, I realize you weren't saying this, pom, but the idea of anyone being put off by Trudeau's brownface/blackface pictures and then considering the BQ is O_O.

xp

Btw, I realize you weren't saying this, pom, but the idea of anyone being put off by Trudeau's brownface/blackface pictures and then considering the BQ is O_O.

Hah, that didn't even cross my mind but now I'm amazed that it's a legit possibility in some alternate plane of existence.

Canadaland episode on the event is good.

yet he won’t learn from that mistake too because we built a political system in which the consequences for mistakes are only weighed with caveat of the alternative

a system he promised to change once he took power

Fun to see him dredge that up when he's leading a minority government

Interesting to see Le Devoir's framing and the fairly forgiving responses even from Trudeau's opponents in Quebec: https://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/562947/brownface-des-elus-quebecois-a-la-rescousse-de-justin-trudeau

you know under bill C21 Trudeau couldn't even be a teacher in Quebec

Some forgiving responses by Surrey voters in this article too:
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/trudeaus-brownface-mistake-could-cost-him-in-b-c-swing-ridings-expert-says

Everyone in that Le Devoir article is otm except for Legault and his caquistes, who can all go fuck themselves on principle.

Also interesting to hear from Marwah Rizqy (Quebec Liberal Party) and Ruba Ghazal (Québec solidaire), whose families come from Morocco and Palestine, respectively. Basically, both of them agree that he fucked up, but that he's not a racist.

you know under bill C21 Trudeau couldn't even be a teacher in Quebec

lol

Ok, just got it now (slow day).

lol indeed.

Anglo-media pundits really don’t get that 1. Bill 21 comes with a notwithstanding clause so a PM has little to none power to overturn it and 2. a federal hopeful taking the bait as to fight against the bill plays exactly in the hands of Quebec nationalists and that will undoubtedly make the situation worse for religious minorities in Quebec. The whole Bill, the whole artificially created situation has been designed as to invite Quebec-Canada confrontation.

The pundits unwillingness to understand the situation beyond their language barrier but to coast on the virtue signalling is sickening to me.

Canada's PM Justin Trudeau admits he can't remember how often he wore blackface, as row deepens ahead of election https://t.co/hG09CHbPAN

— BBC Breaking News (@BBCBreaking) September 19, 2019

wow, that's really young to have dementia that bad.

he doesn't recall any of the times he did it

May's answer to Loi 21 was to find jobs elsewhere in Canada for minorities who couldn't do their jobs bc of the law, which is... interesting.

My Canadian friend just sent me this text:

"Al Molson"

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2019/09/trudeaus-popularity-skyrockets-in-quebec-after-revelation-of-brownface-photos/

They've been reading ilx.

It's barely a parody at this point:

https://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/563006/mot-cle-les-excuses-repetees-de-trudeau-suffiront-elles

'Rebuked in the ROC, forgiven in Quebec'

Sad lol at the final paragraph of that Beaverton piece:

“We have confirmed that the subject in question was not an employee of the Quebec government and was wearing makeup,” said Quebec Premier Francois Legault. “Our secular laws are meant to target real people of colour, not fake ones.”

Otoh, here is a completely different take from the francophone press, arguing out that JT should have known better since his father was also the 'father of multiculturalism' and that, as a drama teacher, he should have been aware of the history of blackface. More pertinently imo, though, the author also challenges the argument raised by the pundits in the Le Devoir piece that blackface means something different in Quebec since it has less connection to American cultural history (itself a debatable proposition): she ddiscusses the history of minstrelsy in Quebec and Canada more generally, including Quebecois troupes and even Calixa Lavallée, author of "O Canada".

Here is the piece, sorry: https://www.lapresse.ca/elections-federales/201909/19/01-5242021-il-ny-a-rien-la-.php

En 2001, Justin Trudeau n’était plus un élève du secondaire, mais un enseignant de 29 ans. Et il enseignait… le théâtre ! Il devait bien avoir entendu parler du minstrel show

There's unfortunately less of a causal link there than she'd like.

the history of minstrelsy in Quebec

lasting up to the 1950s, acc. to the piece; Lavallée apparently performed in blackface in an American troupe. xp

https://globalnews.ca/news/5926620/blackface-canada-history/

In a 2005 doctoral thesis, University of Toronto researcher Lorraine Elmire Louise Le Camp documented hundreds of minstrel performances across Canada from the 1840s to 1960s. These include shows mounted by charitable organizations, religious groups, schools and members of the military and law enforcement.